Talk:French Communist Party

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PCF membership figures?[edit]

Does anyone have current membership statistic for PCF? I recall just i few years back PCF was still the largest party in France in terms of membership. That might have changed now, after the unification of the right-wing into a single party. --Soman 12:17, 28 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

It's probably still true - Communist parties generally cling to old-fashioned cadre-based structures, which modern political parties don't need or even want. The Japanese CP is by far the biggest party in Japan, while polling about 5% of the vote. Adam 02:22, 27 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I wonder how the party structure is related at all to the membership figures. Soman, PCF has about 138.000 members. The left-wing single party, UMP, has about 200.000 members (though this is said to be mostly fictive by many opponents). The French Socialist Party, PS, has less than 120.000 membrs. So, PCF is no longer the largest party. ManuelMenal 11:48, 23 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I think you mean to say the UMP is a right-wing party. In any case, as I said above, there is no relationship between formal membership and voting support or even organisational strength. I would bet a lot of the PCF's members are elderly and/or inactive. Adam 23:50, 23 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, right-wing party, sorry. It's true that while most of the activists are young, many members keep their card to support the Party, although they're not very active. PCF organisational strength is still quite important, though, as shown by the referendum on the EU Constitutional Treaty. ManuelMenal 09:42, 25 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I'm a member of the PCF. That's true we've got a lot of members even if we don't have many voices. Arnsy 23:45, 17 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The UMP has by far and away the largest membership in France. The PCF is second and its members tend to be very politically active from what I can tell, which belies its actually electoral support.

Ideology[edit]

There must really be a section about the PCF's ideology, complete with quotes from party manifestos and officials. I can translate some stuff and do research, but I don't think I'll have the time to do so any time soon. WGee 07:16, 16 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

El Jigue to be banned again[edit]

I just placed and insert into Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, which read into the ""After the signing of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact and the outbreak of World War II in 1939, the PCF (French Communist Party) was declared a proscribed organization. The PCF pursued an anti-war course during the early part of the Second World War." Maurice Thorez head of PCF "deserted from the French Army and fled to the Soviet Union. " [1] ." This was deleted within three minutes because it was alleged that France was not important to this matter [2] and I expect to be banned again soon. Will be back after ban ends. El Jigue 3-24-06

recent edit[edit]

some comments on latest edit:

  • "Currently, the main voter base of National Front is sociologically similar to that the Communists used to have (unskilled workers, low-paid workers and the unemployed). Thus, during the 1980s the PCF vote fell sharply." Article already states that PCF lost votes to FN. That the vote-base of PCF was "unskilled, low-pais workers and the unemployed" is difficult to explain considering that PCF received around 25% of votes.
  • PCF does not play a minor role in French politics. It was the backbone of the no campaign to the EU constitution, for example. It does not play the role it did 20 years ago, but that doesn't make it irrelevant.
Hardly was PCF the backbone of no-campaign. The no came as a result of contributions from both extreme left and extreme right, plus (major factor) those who subscribe to traditional French Souverainism.--Constanz - Talk 16:00, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pol Pot was a member. But he cannot take up half of the 1950s-chapter. Perhaps there should be a list of PCF members, to encompass the vast mass of politicians, writers, etc.. that have held PCF membership. --Soman 12:48, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I guess you agree that Pol Pot is a more important figure than a certain X.Y., eh? If you find 1950s section too short, then do not delete but add smth.--Constanz - Talk 16:00, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not questioning Pol Pot's notability. Rather I question his importance as PCF member. Many people who would become leading politicians in former French colonies were members or politically trained by PCF. The article ought to reflect this collective experience, rather than dropping anecdotes. --Soman 16:17, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately Pol Pot, Stalin and other comrades were not anecdote figures (true, Brezhnev became one). --Constanz - Talk 16:53, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Soman, inside the PCF, Pol Pot was a minor figure, with no role in the shaping of the Party. If you can prove the opposite, present your references. Thanks! Afonso Silva 22:41, 27 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Communist Party of France[edit]

Wasn't there another party called the Communist Party of France that also had seats in the National Assembly recently? What was the deal with that?

I don't think that is so. Adam 08:18, 24 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The relations with the remaining communist parties[edit]

The PCF is increasingly away from its communist counterparts. It ceased participating in the Avante! festival, for example. The party is not a communist party anymore and lives now in the shadow of a glorious past, the building in the Colonel Fabien plaza is a proof of that. The marxist-leninist faction calls the current CC the PC-PGE (PGE stands for Parti de la Gauche Européenne, the European Left Party). Recently, the PCF issued a poster with Che Guevara featuring a red clown nose, Che is not a sacred cow, however, joking with a marxist-leninist fighter that died for the revolution, is a thing that a politically serious party, such as the European M-L parties, like the PCP or the KKE or the former PCF would never do. What comes next? Colonel Fabien with donkey ears? The social-democratization of the party is real and should be presented a major issue in the present PCF. Mário 22:49, 27 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Anti-Intellectual?[edit]

Hi can someone tell me what this paragraph (from the Pol Pot) page means? It says that the FCP was anti intellectual? In what sense?

Pol Pot joined the French Communist Party (PCF). Within the anti-intellectual PCF, Pol Pot's poor academic record was a considerable advantage and helped him to quickly establish a leadership role for himself.

Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

The paragraph had its roots in Philip Short's biography (Pol Pot: Anatomy of a Nightmare). The PCF in the 1950s was strongly stalinist, distrustful of intellectuals and very working-class in ideology. I dont take that to be a negative statement about the PCF. It would have been of course better if the question had been asked on that page. I would also point out that be bold is not a blank check to make false accusations of vandalism or to avoid discussion of issues. If you question the truth or legitimacy, especially of something written recently, you should at least ask for sources rather than just delete it on sight.


That's called vandalism at worse, at best POV edit (i.e. not objective). When you see this kind of things, you are advised to be bold in deleting it. If it has no source and you question its truth or legitimity, you can (and should) delete it on sight, leaving an appropriate comment in the edit-box. Lapaz 23:22, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Cheers! Lapaz 23:24, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"second largest party after the UMP"??[edit]

are you sure about that? PCF was the largest left party before 1981 but nowadays the largest parties are UMP (right) and PSF (socialist), even though PCF's systematical radical opposition view is over exposed by local (and pro-left) medias the party's membership is minoritary and probably the third political force rather than second. Shame On You 12:19, 20 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The PS certainly has more deputies in the Assembly. In terms of party membership, I imagine we should try to find actual numbers - I'd also have guessed that the PS has more members, at this point, given that the PCF is at this point regularly winning an enormous 3.5% of the vote. And what about the UDF? john k 17:25, 20 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The PCF was the second largest Party after the UMP at the beginning of the year (the PCF had ~130.000 members and the PS ~110.000). The PS started at the end of 2005 a massive recruitment campaign (lowering membership fees to 20 euros a year and using the fact that only members of the PS could vote who would be the socialist candidate in the Presidential election in 2007). The PS says it now has 200.000 members (wherehas the UMP claims 300.000). The PCF has 134.000, which makes it the third largest party.
The UDF claims about 15.000 members, the Greens a little less than 10.000.
As for the voting part, it does not « regularly » win 3.5% of the vote — it got 3.37% the French presidential election. In June 2002, it got 5%, and it got quite a lot more in 2004 (more than 10% in Nord and Picardie, 7.2% in Île-de-France and 9,2% in Auvergne). And the membership figures have been climbing steadily since 2003. ManuelMenal 03:28, 23 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough. It is interesting that they have historically had a higher membership figure than the PS, which generally gets many more votes than they do. But I suppose that Communist Parties have always been particularly membership based. john k 04:08, 23 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah. The PCF is supposed to be a "mass" party and has a very strong local implantation, whereas the PS is what we call « un parti d'électeurs », meaning a "vote-based party". Also note that the PS is only 30 years old (although the SFIO is much older — but was almost dead when the PS was created), whereas the PCF is eighty-six years old — makes quite a difference, because there is quite a number of PCF members that have been there for thirty to fifty years (the PCF calls them "veterans"), whereas there is not many of them in the PS. Manuel Menal 06:31, 23 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Young Communists[edit]

I'm looking for an article on the JCF or MJCF, the French Young Communist League. There is a dead link to it in the article on Maurice Kriegel-Valrimont, a PCF resistance activist. Is there such an article? If not, I'm sure there should be. Itsmejudith 20:34, 20 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Former PCF voters = New Le Pen voters ?[edit]

I have suppressed sentences who said the PCF suffered from the rise of FN. This is a journalistic analysis which is not scientificly proved. It is based on the importance of the FN vote among the workers. But the specialists of the French workers vote contested it (Michelat et Simon, Les ouvriers et la politique). For they, the workers who vote Le Pen came from the Gaullism and the classical right, which represented 1/3 of the workers vote. The former Communist voters who vote Le Pen today are very minoritary in the FN elctorate and, before to vote Le Pen, they have voted for another party (often socialist) or they abstained. The first decline of the PCF (1978-1988) have drained voters towards the Socialist Party and abstention. During this years, the PCF lost 14 points and the PS won 12 points. The second decline (since 1997) have drained voters towards abstention and Far Left (LO, LCR...). Michelat et Simon are not communists. N.a french 17:45, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Pole of Communist Rebirth in France[edit]

I wikified the above article, but it still needs attention and if anyone here had a minute to check it out they might be able to move it forward a bit. Thanks in advance. Itsmejudith 21:32, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fair use rationale for Image:French Communist Party logo.png[edit]

Image:French Communist Party logo.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 05:47, 19 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

anti-Hitler[edit]

During the war anti-Hitlerite was the Stalinist shorthand for the Nazis not anti-facsist. This came later. The business of the party of the 75,000 was an ironic joke as around 40000 French people in total (excepting Jews) were murdered or otherwise by the Occupiers. JimBakken —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.109.15.149 (talk) 13:35, 10 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The "how" and "why" of changes in policies?[edit]

In the doctrine section it states;

"Since then, the PCF's ideology has been marked by significant ideological evolution on some topics but consistency on other issues. Some of the most marked changes have come on individual rights and immigration. After having vilified homosexuality and feminism as "the rubbish of capitalism" in the 1970s, the PCF now fully supports both gay rights and feminism."

So, the bias language aside, the article doesn't say HOW or WHY the PCF went full on Eurocommunist/ultra-revisionist on these issues. In the 1970s, they recognised this whole Simone de Beauvoir/Michel Foucault stuff for what it is; bourgeois decadence. This is very much in line with the view of Marxist-Leninism the rest of the world over.

Then they completely changed their line, to the extent that now, they throw really cute, adorable little hissy fits, breaking off relations with the Communist Party of the Russian Federation, because the latter refuse to raise anal-sex to the level of sacrament. All very odd.

We need to better explain how and why this change in the party came about. Georges Marchais was General Secretary throughout the duration of this time, so it can't be a personnel issue. As under him they held both completely 180 degrees different views on these issues at different times. Claíomh Solais (talk) 16:29, 4 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Do you expect people to take you seriously when you post vile rants like this? AusLondonder (talk) 00:01, 5 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]


Participated in 3 governments?[edit]

This article says it participated in three governments: "in the provisional government of the Liberation (1944–1947), at the beginning of François Mitterrand's presidency (1981–1984) and in the Plural Left cabinet led by Lionel Jospin (1997–2002)." It also says "With the rise of Fascism after 1934 the PCF supported the Popular Front, which came to power under Léon Blum in 1936." However, the Popular Front (France) article says: "The Popular Front (French: Front populaire) was an alliance of left-wing movements, including the French Communist Party (PCF), the French Section of the Workers' International (SFIO) and the Radical and Socialist Party, during the interwar period." If the last part is correct, surely the PCF participated in four governments? Dáibhí Ó Bruadair (talk) 11:09, 16 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion[edit]

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Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 11:08, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

PCF is not far-left[edit]

PCF is generally a reference point for dividing the center left and the far left in France. PCF is considered "left-wing" in France, and more left-wing LFI is "extreme left." In fact, the PCF is much more moderate than other countries' communist parties and more moderate than the democratic socialist party, the LFI.--Storm598 (talk) 04:02, 15 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

In French politics, the PCF is not considered a far-left party, and the PCF is a much more very very moderate party than the real far-left party, the LFI. The PCF is Communist In Name Only. If you don't believe me, ask political experts living in France.--Storm598 (talk) 14:40, 19 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Several sources call the PCF as being 'far-left'. It's the same situation with the Communist Party of Greece where, locally (in Greece), they're considered as left-wing, since they were the historic opposition to the Nazis, and so on. The document Contemporary Far Left Parties in Europe: From Marxism to the Mainstream? indeed calls it 'less radical' than the other European communist parties, but that pretty much just entails that they have just dropped their revolutionary ideology. French MSN also calls the PCF 'radical left' which goes from "social democracy, to the far-left" (according to the French Wikipedia). If not being far-left, the far-left is at least a faction within the PCF.--Los Perros pueden Cocinar (talk) 15:31, 20 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
...which again shows how meaningless these infobox labels are, without proper context. --Soman (talk) 16:09, 20 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Although several credible sources still claim that they are far-left.--Los Perros pueden Cocinar (talk) 19:54, 21 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Political Position[edit]

Should we update the political position into the infobox to "Radical left to far-left". Lsandre (talk) 20:06, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The political position should be change. The position is (in french) "gauche radicale", a position in french equivalent to a moderate far-left (Radical left wing), to far-left.

Here a source, with a discussion between a journalist and a politologist : https://atlantico.fr/article/decryptage/melenchon-verts-et-gauche-de-la-gauche--echographie-d-un-echec-intellectuel-et-politique-en-gestation. The journalist ask if the party is far-left, and the politologist say that it's radical left. 

  Entre Les Verts qui ne participent pas mais soutiennent le gouvernement, les tensions entre le PC et PG, etc… Le problème de l'extrême gauche réside-t-il dans ses divisions ? Sont-elles conciliables ?
  
  Eddy Fougier : Je ne parlerai pas d'extrême gauche à propos du PC et du PG et encore moins à propos d'Europe Ecologie Les Verts, mais plutôt de gauche radicale.

French journalists used to call the party far-left: 

  Entre Les Verts qui ne participent pas mais soutiennent le gouvernement, les tensions entre le PC et PG, etc… Le problème de l'extrême gauche réside-t-il dans ses divisions ? Sont-elles conciliables ?

  l'extrême gauche poursuit sa dégringolade
  [...]
  Alors que le PS parvient à limiter la casse et pourrait même conserver 6 régions métropolitaines sur 13, le Front de gauche (Parti de gauche et PCF) et affiliés perdent nettement du terrain
  [...]
  les listes uniquement Front de gauche plafonnent à 2,49 %. Si l’on prend en compte les listes d’alliance (avec d’autres formations d’extrême gauche ou EELV), elles arrivent tout juste à dépasser les 4 %
  [...]
  les formations d’extrême gauche sont parties en ordre dispersé pour ces élections. En France métropolitaine, seules trois régions (Corse, Paca et Languedoc-Roussillon-Midi-Pyrénées) ne proposaient qu’une liste à la gauche de la gauche… sans compter les deux listes écologistes qui se sont présentées à chaque fois en Paca et en Languedoc-Roussillon-Midi-Pyrénées.  

   La Fête de l’Huma, théâtre de la division de l’extrême gauche
   [...]
   La constitution de listes communes PCF-PG-EELV pose problème. Dans les 13 nouvelles "super-régions", les négociations sont tendues.

Lsandre (talk) 20:06, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Lsandre: what is your brief and neutral statement? At over 2,800 bytes, the statement above (from the {{rfc}} tag to the next timestamp) is far too long for Legobot (talk · contribs) to handle, and so it is not being shown correctly at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Politics, government, and law. The RfC may also not be publicised through WP:FRS until a shorter statement is provided. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:30, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Redrose64: Should we update the political position into the infobox to "Radical left to far-left". Lsandre (talk) 21:42, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Then it needs to follow the {{rfc}} directly: Legobot won't look for it way down here. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:39, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Party colour[edit]

Should the party's colour be forked, or should it be replaced? The reason I'm asking is that its logo has been a different colour since 2018. ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 21:13, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

From what I can see, they now use a lighter shade of red (in their logo), so no... I'm opposed to this. You can also look at their website or Facebook page and you'll notice that they do not use only one shade of red, but multiple, including the one that is in the Module. At their 39 congress documents, they also used the darker red logo, not the lighter one. This would've been appropriate if the change was similar to LREM or Montenegrin DPS, however this is not the case for PCF. Vacant0 (talk) 10:16, 18 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Okay :) ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 12:19, 18 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Euroscepticism[edit]

I notice that the the line "Soft euroscepticism" in the infobox needs a better source. I have found strong sources describing the party as eurosceptic, so I will add those. For the "soft" aspect, the existing source (Europe Elects) relies on the Chapel Hill Expert Survey, where the PCF had a score of 3 (apparently out 7) on the EU Position scale in 2019. By comparison, the EELV, PS, MoDem, and LREM parties all had scores above 6, with LR closely behind at 5.5. I think this should suffice but I wanted to explain the edit to other editors here. Precision123 (talk) 21:39, 9 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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