Talk:Ionization energies of the elements (data page)

Comment

This page is intended as an authoritative data collection with citation of sources, that may be cited as a central reference by other articles (such as for the chemical elements). Femto 19:04, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Merge discussion

@Ice bear johny:

This is my comment on the merger proposal at the top of Molar ionization energies of the elements to merge that article into this one. I could not find any other comment so I presume there is none. My opinion in brief is that we should merge the two articles but not immediately.

It is true that the two articles cover exactly the same subject with the ionization energy given in different units, so there is no real need to have both articles. However the merge proposer (User: Ice bear johny) also noted that this article is not properly sourced. In fact there are some sources at the end of the list, but they are not presented properly (see below). Therefore I propose that we decide how to fix the sources in this article first, and then proceed to the merger when the sources are more satisfactory.

The first source given for values in eV units is the CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics. Until my edit yesterday, this was attributed to "an online version" with no URL - not very helpful. I have now found the website and the page number for the table of ionization potentials, and inserted a proper citation at the top of the table of ionization energies, with a footnote at the bottom in the References.

The second source now given is the Web Elements site now quoted as a source for the values in kJ/mol. This one does have a URL, but I could not find any numerical values in the Ionization Energies sections. Only lots of multicolor diagrams where the color and its intensity are qualitatively related to the values. Not very precise, so I suggest that this source be eliminated from the article. Perhaps it contained numerical values in the past but not now.

This article also contains an external link to the NIST Atomic Spectra Database, which is an excellent source for values in eV except for two slight drawbacks: i) there are no tables and the user has to look up one atom or ion at a time, and ii) the lookup requires the old physicist's notation for charge states: for example neutral Mg is denoted "Mg I" (meaning the first atomic spectrum of Mg), Mg⁺ is "Mg II" (meaning second spectrum observed at higher energies), Mg²⁺ is "Mg III", etc. This notation will be confusing to chemistry students because the Roman numeral given corresponds to the oxidation state PLUS ONE.

Finally the row marked USE just repeats the kJ/mol with no source at all, which is against Wikipedia rules. These rows should just be eliminated.

So we have two good sources (CRC and NIST) for the eV values and none for the kJ/mol values. We could either eliminate the kJ/mol values and just give the conversion factors, or we could find kJ/mol values for the first few ionization energies of most elements in textbook sources. Dirac66 (talk) 02:33, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Greetings! Yes I concur that we should eliminate the kJ/mol values and just focus on the eV. Alternately, if verified, the kJ/mol values can also be inputted on the original table designated for eV values for ease. I can supplement the data (and further references to avoid vandalism) needed for the values, starting on December 13, as that would mark the official end for our classes. Thanks for your help and update! Ice bear johny (talk) 04:54, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

@Dirac66:

Hewwo! I am glad to tell u that our classes have ended in anticipation of this very merry Christmas break :DDDD. Now I can focus finally on this topic. That's all have a nice day! Ice bear johny (talk) 03:28, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

@Dirac66:

Greetings! I am glad to tell you that I have started adding references in the data page :DDD. That is all, have a nice day! uwu JN Dela Cruz (talk) 17:31, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Very good. It may take a long time though to find primary sources for all the first, second, third, ... ionization energies of all the atoms. So far you have only the first ionization energy of the first four atoms. Perhaps it would be easier to just use the NIST and CRC secondary sources for most of the values. Dirac66 (talk) 02:27, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

@Dirac66, JN Dela Cruz, and Ice bear johny: Is a merge still on the cards in the near future, or should we delete templates on the grounds of not yet? 19:35, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

Closing, given the stale discussion and the uncontested not yet proposal. Klbrain (talk) 11:39, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

Why do some atoms have very few ionization levels (for instance Ga has only 4) ? Missing data or is there a physical reason ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dargaud (talk • contribs) 11:48, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

For gallium, the NIST source places the values for Ga V, Ga VI, Ga VII etc. inside red square parentheses. This suggests that the NIST editors consider these values less reliable than those for Ga I, Ga II, Ga III and Ga IV. Dirac66 (talk) 19:05, 5 May 2023 (UTC)