Talk:Marianne

France High‑importance

	France portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject France, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of France on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FranceWikipedia:WikiProject FranceTemplate:WikiProject FranceFrance articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Culture Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Culture, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of culture on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CultureWikipedia:WikiProject CultureTemplate:WikiProject Cultureculture articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Tip: Anchors are case-sensitive in most browsers.

This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.

[[French Revolution#Hercules|Hercules]] The anchor (#Hercules) is no longer available because it was deleted by a user before.

Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. | Reporting errors

Copyright-free[edit]

Initial text from: http://www.info-france-usa.org/atoz/marianne.asp, copyright free according to the mention at: http://www.info-france-usa.org/aboutus.asp. olivier 23:12, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Same thing for pictures. Remove them if you believe that the copiright mention does not apply to them. olivier 23:56, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)

More photos[edit]

Will someone please take some photographs of the statue in Place de la Nation, and donate them into public domain or license under GFDL? -- Kaihsu 18:43, 2004 Sep 16 (UTC)

What about the statue in Place de la Republique? -- Kaihsu 18:43, 2004 Sep 16 (UTC)

You can find pictures of the statue on Place de la République in the Commons at [1]. olivier 05:19, 25 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

French mythology redirects directly to this page, instead of to a French Mythology categories page. I fixed it.

Not quite sure how to bring this to someone's attention, but this entire paragraph "Blue-white-red, Marianne, Liberté-Egalité-Fraternité, the Republic:....in the regions and départements." is directly plagiarized off the French Embassy's website, from here: http://www.ambafrance-us.org/atoz/marianne.asp

Tone[edit]

The tone of the article is perhaps inappropriate for a Wikipedia article. We should not address the reader with To begin with, why the name?. In addition, I had to reword the introduction to make it sound less like EB1911. :-) David.Monniaux 14:51, 10 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Origin[edit]

The origin of Marianne is actually known but only by a very few people; the original "Marianne" is Marie-Anne Reubell, the wife of a French politician. One day, a politician asked in a meeting:"We need a figure for the Republic" then he turned to a woman and said:"Madame, your face agrees with the Republic. What's your name?" "Marie-Anne". The real phrase is "Madame, votre visage sied à la République autant qu'il sied à vous même", if someone could make a better translation...

I read this story (which is already in the article, by the way) and several other ones for the possible origin of the name. So the real story is probably known by quite a few people, but much fewer know which one is the "real" story. olivier

I am from a Ex-French Colony in India called Mahe. On the shore of Kerala State. Interestingly i know that there is a Statue of Marianne there. People from alliance Francaise Clebrates the Frech Republic Day there. Incidentaly that brings me to the thought that there may be other many such statue of Marianne all over the World. I think that this defenitely needs a mention in location. Sunil Kumar T K

Models[edit]

The edit 00:49, February 25, 2006 by user 12.4.60.178 removed Inès de la Fressange and Sophie Marceau as past models. The user also removed the following text: "In 2002 a new Marianne was born. She does not have the features of a famous French woman but those of an anonymous beurette (young woman of North African descent), discovered by a scouting agent looking for a model who would symbolize a modern, multi-ethnic France."

In fact, Inès de la Fressange was the Marianne model in 1989 (see [2], [3], [4] - with picture). I restored her name in the list. olivier 05:49, 25 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Grammatical Gender[edit]

I suggest removing this-- Note also that liberté, égalité, fraternité, république and France are feminine words in French from the article.

This grossly misunderstands the way grammatical gender works in French. It has nothing to do with attributing female or male characteristics to abstract concepts; rather it's largely based on word structure. Every single noun ending in "-ité" is feminine, as are all the nouns ending in "-nce" (with the sole exception, I think, of prince) and most of the nouns ending with "-ique". As a counterexample, Monarchie, tyrannie, and lâcheté (cowardice) are all feminine nouns too, while courage and héroïsme are masculine, all owing to their suffixes. (This also has the funny result that in French, masculinité is a feminine noun while féminisme is a masculine noun!) Andrew Levine 06:10, 2 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, I'm removing this from the article - AKeen 02:04, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I reincluded the fact that the Republic is a feminine noun, because it seems Maurice Agulhon also spoke about it, if we believe this account of his books. Tazmaniacs 14:29, 27 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Propaganda literally copied?[edit]

Sentences like

Blue-white-red, Marianne, Liberté-Egalité-Fraternité, the Republic: these powerful national symbols represent France and its values.

and

It emerged that the French are deeply committed to the fundamental values of the Republic, and they expect an impartial and efficient State to be the guarantor of the principles of liberty, equality and fraternity.

smell like they were copied from official government propaganda. 145.116.236.110 02:06, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As mentioned above, the text has indeed been copied from a copyright-free government source: http://www.info-france-usa.org/atoz/marianne.asp. And I agree that it does indeed need changing. --Kwekubo 16:08, 7 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Tangentially: isn't egalite better translated as egalitarianism than equality? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.104.247.86 (talk) 14:41, 12 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Editing undone[edit]

I'm not sure why Marianne would be referred to as "Analia". The "secret message" the user put in was a nice touch, but not appropriate. Orville Eastland 01:12, 25 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Black-list[edit]

http://www.languedoc-france.info/06141211_marianne.htm has been blacklisted, although the page presents lots of image of Marianne & historical info, in English furthermore. Couldn't an exception be made for this entry? Tazmaniacs 14:28, 27 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

English variant[edit]

Which should this article use? I (talk) 20:18, 15 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Inna Shevchenko as Marianne: extremely misleading formulation[edit]

In July 2013, Inna Shevchenko, the highest-profile member of the Ukrainian feminist protest group FEMEN, became the new Marianne on French stamps, after being granted political asylum in France.

That's a very simplistic and misleading way to put it. As explained in the "Models" section of this article, usually the French mayors association or official committees decide that the new Marianne bust will take the features of a specific French female celebrity. The sculptor complies to the official choice.

In the case of the 2013 new Marianne stamp, it is quite different. As put in the BBC article used for reference, the artist who designed the new Marianne image for French stamps has revealed that he was inspired by topless activist Inna Shevchenko.

To clarify this point: artist Olivier Ciappa revealed that he was inspired by Shevchenko after his design was officially selected and displayed by the French authorities. To put it bluntly, the artist name-dropped Shevchenko on a whim when asked about his inspiration. And when Ciappa became aware of the huge controversy that this name-dropping caused among the French public opinion, he quickly backpedaled by saying that his Marianne had the combined features of many women and that she actually bears no physical resemblance to Inna Shevchenko.

Basically, it was a stunt from the artist, and does not reflect in any way any official decision by the French authorities to use Shevchenko features as a reference for the new Marianne stamp. That the French state would choose a controversial Ukrainian (read: non-French) activist, whose protest group has been disapproved by many French government members, is virtually unthinkable: the problem is that the article precisely implies that.

One should reformulate this passage, either by detailing the whole affair or by scrapping this piece of information (which is not so important, when you put it into context). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.164.239.43 (talk) 20:33, 25 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Liberal? And conservative? At the same time?[edit]

Currently in the first paragraph of the section Fifth Republic, there begins this sentence: "The liberal and conservative president Valéry Giscard d'Estaing ..." I'm no expert on French politics, but how it possible for anyone to be liberal and conservative at the same time? (It almost sounds like a pitch for a movie idea - The Schizophrenic President.) __209.179.51.170 (talk) 19:49, 7 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

In continental Europe the term liberalism describes a position that stands for civil rights on the one hand and economic freedom on the other. So it absolutely can be combined with conservatism. The meaning of the term "liberal" as used in US/UK would be described as "left wing liberal" or "social democratic". --JakobvS (talk) 14:14, 12 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Origin of the name[edit]

The origin of her name, while occurring rather late, during the second Empire, should be found in the lead section, I think. Agreed? JakobvS (talk) 14:17, 12 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Marianne. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 14:12, 2 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Marianne. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 04:31, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion[edit]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Gov fr.png

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 12:22, 1 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ridiculous to want to delete these. Can someone please move the files to Wikipedia where they can be saved. Thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:29, 1 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]