Talk:John Berryman

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140.247.69.45 (talk) 23:10, 12 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Sci fi connection?[edit]

Query--Is this the Same John Berryman who wrote science fiction stories which appeared in the SF magazines in the early 1960's I'm thinking of titles like "The Trouble with Telstar" in Analog (1964) and a sequel, "Stuck," which appeared a bit later....Just wondering, as that was while John W. Campbell was still editing the magazine...

Thanks, George M. Ewing, wa8wte@juno.com.

According to http://www.hycyber.com/SF/analog_ba.html, the John Berryman who wrote for Analog was born in 1919 and died in 1988. RickK 22:20, Nov 28, 2004 (UTC)

I don't think so. Googled him, and nothing about scifi came up elsewhere.

No, the poet John Berryman definitely did not write science fiction.Jpcohen (talk) 19:57, 25 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

FWIW Berryman actually did write a bit of science fiction -- see "Shirley & Auden" in Love & Fame ("At twelve / I wrote a half a science-fiction book / about a trip to Neptune & Ee-loro-a'ala"), and also Dream Song 50.140.247.69.45 (talk) 23:10, 12 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

http://www.amazon.com/Vigorish-Science-Fiction-Berryman-Classics-ebook/dp/B00KGMIWFM
VIGORISH AND OTHER SCIENCE FICTION STORIES is a collection of works by science fiction writer John Berryman (1916-1988). He enjoyed a prolific career during the Golden Age of Science Fiction and was a regular contributor to pulp science fiction magazines from the 1940s-1960s. Berryman often published under the pseudonyms Walter C. Bailey, Walter Bupp, and Joseph Tinker to distinguish himself from the poet of the same name.
QuentinUK (talk) 16:45, 21 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Misc.[edit]

If that Spender quote (re Jarrell, Roethke, Berryman, just before Suicide section) is accurate, it doesn't say much for his ability to wield language. -- Twang

Who? Berryman? it's irrelevant to his ability to wield language. Or did you mean Spender? that would be irrelevant to this page.

Did John Berryman's father commit suicide when John was 8, 10, 11, or 12? I've found each of these numbers in various sources!

Article Problems: Clean-Up; Original Research[edit]

I just added a couple of warnings to the top of the article. It's unbalanced. There's a long anecdote under the heading "Writer's Workshop", unsourced. Amusing enough, but it's like just one incident from his life dealt with at length, for no apparent reason. The commentary on the "Poetry", especially on The Dream Songs strikes me as reasonable, but since there are no sources I assume it's a piece of original work, and therefore disallowed. Generally this needs attention from someone familiar not only with Berryman's work, but also with the main secondary sources - I know there's a big biography, but it's years since I read it.

Also, given the state of the rest of the article, I question the notability of a verse from a 2007 Hold Steady song - and I do like the band.KD Tries Again 19:43, 6 July 2007 (UTC)KD[reply]

Uh-huh: the poetry analysis, like the biography, is in danger of tendentiousness: both read too much back from Berryman's suicide. Furthetrmore, Dream Songs are way easier to understand than Cantos: there isnot enough recognition of Berryman's humour or his technical skill. And what about 'Love & Fame'? I've read the source for the classroom stories: I think it's in 'Recovering Berryman' a 1993 book of essays and other stuff of very variable quality, but it probably gets too much prominence. There are two big biographies, even, though the mopre recent seems to me to be little advance on the older, and I'm unsure what it's for. I'll see if I can find time to tidy it all up a bit. Any recommendations welcome. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.125.31.20 (talk) 15:51, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The poetry section needs to go; it reads like an excerpt from an undergraduate term paper. Also, one reading of one poem doesn't do much good in explicating Berryman's work. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.161.142.195 (talk) 05:56, 26 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The poetry section really needs some sort of cleaning up. BrEdWhite (talk) 15:55, 14 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I've tried to work at fixing up this article (with references and significant revision and expansion).Jpcohen (talk) 04:00, 28 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Dublin[edit]

Berryman spent some time in Dublin in the sixties and his "Dream Songs" were completed in Ireland. Millbanks (talk) 07:05, 24 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Iowa[edit]

In his book "The Pear is Ripe", the Irish poet John Montague recalls how Berryman had to leave the State University of Iowa after ending up in jail following a fight with a student. Millbanks (talk) 07:10, 24 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It didn't help that Berryman spit on the cop from his cell.§James Hercules Sutton 04:10, 10 January 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by JamesSutton (talk • contribs)

He drank two fifths daily of J. W. Dant, a barley-based whiskey that causes effeminate puffiness in its addicts. This explains his “homosexuality,” a point over which his biographers muddle curiously. Arrested for drunkenness in Iowa City, he was taunted by jailers for being queer, an accusation he denied so vehemently that biographers wonder. The explanation is that police were reacting to Berryman, who was abusive when drunk, which was most of the time. It’s unwise to argue with a uniform and insane to spit on one from behind bars. Berryman was rarely deferential, except to those who could advance his career.

His suicide[edit]

The Minneapolis Star reported that Berryman didn't die from trauma, but from smothering in mud at the foot of the bridge. Given that he wrote a book about Hart Crane's symbolism in "The Bridge," one might wonder about whether Berryman was aiming expressively to drown.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.125.187.181 (talk) 05:10, 24 June 2011 (UTC) James Hercules Sutton 04:08, 10 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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His Father's Death[edit]

Always thought it was suicide, but some sources purport it was murder. Apparently his biography makes a similar accusation. Can anyone shed any light on this? It does seems to be very relevant as, either, a mystery or a misunderstanding with dire results... --80.212.124.198 (talk) 05:01, 12 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The death of Berryman's father, John Smith, was officially ruled a suicide. However, Paul Mariani wrote, in his bio on Berryman, that the timing of the father's death seemed suspicious. Now, I don't recall the details of Mariani's conjecture, but I'm fairly certain that he ultimately concluded that there was no proof of foul play (though Berryman's mother was evidently cheating on Smith who was also struggling financially at the time).Jpcohen (talk) 06:07, 12 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Berryman might have had hematochomatosis, an iron deficiency that causes depression. It runs in families and killed Hemingway as well as Hemingway's brother and sister, both suicides. This would explain Berryman's suicide and his father’s. James Hercules Sutton 04:06, 10 January 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by JamesSutton (talk • contribs)

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Dream Song 113[edit]

Dream Song 113, which has baffled everyone, has a simple explanation: It's his first encounter with Feminism (before a word was coined for it) among college women who were his intellectual peers. He wrote it in 1963 during his sabbatical at Brown University. One, who never shaved her legs or wore underwear, made it a point to sit directly across from him in seminar, legs open. The other was also independent and smart as a whip. Neither was submissive. He was baffled by them.James Hercules Sutton 15:59, 3 January 2021 (UTC)[1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by JamesSutton (talk • contribs)

References

  1. ^ personal experience
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