Talk:Din-i Ilahi

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 24 August 2020 and 18 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Flunkrock.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 19:32, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Sadly

Why is it sad that this cult had no followers? Is that an encyclopedic term?

I agree , I think "sadly should be removed".:

I agree, too. Do you think we should get some kind of discussion forum going to see how we can actually go about editing the article?

It seems someone has opened a new article Din-e-Ilahi. i am new here, so hat should we do about naming, which one is correct? the other article is better written in my opinion.18.252.6.149 03:02, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Farsi

Din-i-Ilahi doesn't seem to be an Arabic term, although it does say "Arabic" in parentheses. Seems more like Farsi, which would be very much plausible, considering that Babur was a descendant of Tamerlane, and also ruled in Kabul. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.154.66.131 (talk) 08:47, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm going to have to disagree with AnonMoos here - Din-i Ilahi is straight-up Persian or a Persian loanword. That ezafe means "Persianate", and the "movement" itself - okay, it was just the Emperor, basically - was clearly not Arabic-based. Note the worship site was called the "Ibādat Khāna" - another Persianate form. I say we mark it Persian, and that we use {{lang-fa|}}, i.e. "Persian: دين إله".

Also, isn't it (as I noted) دين إله and not دين إلهي ?

ناهد^𒀭(^dAnāhita) ^𒅴 16:00, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

I have checked and it is, in fact, a Persian nisbated form. ناهد^𒀭(^dAnāhita) ^𒅴 19:26, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

I agree with User:Emilyzilch its definitely Persian NOT Arabic. Even someone with a basic education can understand its Persian and all the references say its Persian. Please get a Wikipedia administrator to block the vandal or troll who keeps on vandalising the article and keeps on putting Arabic!!! Stop vandalising!!!--James smith2 (talk) 23:46, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

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The term came into the Indian subcontinent by means of Persian (certainly the "-i" suffix on the first word is specifically Farsi), but it is in fact an Arabic-language phrase in origin. The word Ilah is from a basic Semitic root, while the Persian language is an Indo-European one. Furthermore, I have great objections to labeling the Arabic script words دين إلهي currently in the article as Farsi, because they are simply not Farsi -- Farsi and Arabic actually use slightly different spelling conventions (despite sharing the same basic script), and the words دين إلهي use Arabic-language spelling conventions (not Persian ones). AnonMoos (talk) 20:45, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

The script differences are honestly an artificial issue here. You can - and people do - write Farsi with a variety of script forms, and vice-versa. They use "ی" in Egypt, too.

If that was Arabic, it would be "ad-Dīn al-Lāhiyy" or "ad-Dīn al-Lāhūtiyy".

If there's such a fuss about the two dots on the final yā', I'll swap it. ناهد^𒀭(^dAnāhita) ^𒅴 03:35, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

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Nice try, but Egyptian Arabic uses Unicode character ى x 0649 ARABIC LETTER ALEF MAKSURA in such cases, while Persian uses ی x 06CC ARABIC LETTER FARSI YEH (to start with). To see an example of the real difference between Arabic and Farsi/Urdu, compare the Urdu Interwiki and the Arabic interwiki at the bottom of the Maududi article... AnonMoos (talk) 19:50, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Do you speak any Farsi or Arabic? I'm studying both, and let me tell you, script is a minor issue. You can use a Farsi-style script with Arabic and vice-versa. It's only a matter of handwriting or printing styles and nothing more. Hell, we could write them using a Kufi script if we wanted to; it doesn't matter one bit. The main difference is that the font-styles associated with Persianate scripts has extra letters, and they are merely extra dots here or there. There are Kufi versions of those, too... ناهد^𒀭(^dAnāhita) ^𒅴 02:19, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Dude, you can wax lyrical about calligraphy styles all you want, but that won't change the simple fact that what is currently labelled as "Farsi" in the article does NOT in fact use the correct Farsi characters according to the standard accepted usage of Unicode characters for Farsi.... AnonMoos (talk) 02:57, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

First, don't call me "dude". Second, that's what it means: writing. Now I have fixed it by copying the Persian directly. End of problem. ناهد^𒀭(^dAnāhita) ^𒅴 04:06, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Contradiction

First it says this school does not recognise gods. Then it talks about God. --Againme (talk) 23:41, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Britannica confirms the God mention. I fixed the contradiction by deleting the "no gods" claim.--Againme (talk) 03:41, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Akbar's respect for Jesus

The article contains the following paragraph:

The respect Akbar harbored for Jesus is exhibited on the Buland Darwaza (lit: "Door of Victory"), a massive gate in Fatehpur Sikri. Among passages from the Qur'an etched in the Naskh script, Khwaja Hussain Chishti, a Sufi of the Chishti Order, transcribed the following forewarning of impermanence:

Isa, son of Mary, said: This world is a bridge. Pass over it, but build no houses on it. He who hopes for an hour may hope for eternity. The world endures but an hour. Spend it in prayer, for the rest is unseen.

References

Now, that's a beautiful quote, but the passage around it is dubious. Look at the sources: the first one is Akbar Ahmed: Two Plays – that's a work of fiction (written by an academic, but still a work of fiction). The last one is a website that has two paragraphs about the Buland Darwaza, but no mention of either Din-i Ilahi or of Akbar's respect for Jesus. That leaves us with one source: I don't have access to it, but a preview can be found on Google Books ([1], p. 28: you can find the passage by searching for "unseen"). The quote of the inscription is immediately followed by the comment The phrase inscription is one of hundreds of sayings and stories of Jesus that are found in Arabic and Islamic literature. Then there's some discussion of the sources of those quotes, but there's nothing at all on that page about either Akbar or his respect for Jesus. – Uanfala (talk) 19:41, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

Hi User:Uanfala, I notice that you've never edited this article before. May I ask how you found it? Also, I'm glad you admit that you have no access to the source you're curious about. I look forward to hearing from you. Kind regards, Anupam^Talk 19:46, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

I don't have access to the whole text, but I was able to look at the specific page cited in the passage. Is there another page I'm supposed to look at? – Uanfala (talk) 23:03, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

Since you didn't arrive here in good faith User:Uanfala (you had admitted that you were following my contributions after our dispute on an ethnic group article), I'm going to presume that you aren't familiar with Akbar or Din-i Illahi. I will provide you an example of a text that speaks on this topic titled Christian-Muslim Relations, published by Brill Academic Publishers in 2016, mentions Akbar's reverence for Christ and the Blessed Virgin Mary; other texts mention his frequent visits with Christian priests from the Roman Catholic religious order of the Society of Jesus. Rather than edit warring on topics that you don't know about, take time to read about them in books from your local library or through academic journals. I'm not going to edit war here since that is probably what you wanted to me to do, but I'll allow you to cool down. I'll expand this later. Kind regards, Anupam^Talk 00:11, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

Yes, sticking to the topics we do know about is good advice :) I wouldn't have removed anything that's unsourced (because that's not my subject area). But it doesn't take knowledge, real or perceived, to notice when the sources given verifiably do not support the statements that cite them. – Uanfala (talk) 00:20, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

I'm glad that you found my advice helpful. Happy editing! Anupam^Talk 00:25, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

It's indeed true that Akbar was not intolerant of Christianity. But that is a straw-man rebuttal. Since Uanfala's objection is to you claiming that some verse etched in the Buland Darwaza is a bearer of Akbar's respectfulness towards Christianity, based on misinterpretation of sources.

I have access to the Lexington book via Proquest and the relevant paragraph states :- One of the most impressive creations of Fatehpur Sikri is the Jama Masjid (Friday Mosque). Its southern entrance, at the top a monumental stairway leading up from today’s poor village of Sikri, is the impressive arched Victory Gate, considered to be one of the greatest examples of Muslim architecture in India. Constructed of red sandstone, it is decorated by carvings and white marble inlay. Along the inside of the arch is inlaid calligraphy which reads: “Jesus, Son of Mary (on whom be peace) said: ‘The World is a Bridge, pass over it, but build no houses upon it. He who hopes for a day, may hope for eternity; but the World endures but an hour. Spend it in prayer, for the rest is unseen.’” The phrase inscription is one of hundreds of sayings and stories of Jesus that are found in Arabic and Islamic literature. Some of these come from the four New Testament Gospels, others from early Christian texts such as the Gnostic Gospel of Thomas (later rejected), others again from the wider oral Christian traditions of the Near East. It is possible that some are authentic sayings and stories of Jesus that Islam has retained but which Western Christianity has lost. TrangaBellam (talk) 10:35, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

"Central Asian ancestor"

Does anyone know whether the Central Asian ancestor mentioned in the quote ("...like his Central Asian ancestor, he believed in astronomy and astrology...") refers to Timur or Ulugh Beg? I am going to change it to clarify that it is Timur, as that seems likeliest, but it could really be either, since Ulugh Beg was very famous for his work in astronomy. EllipsisElegy (talk) 18:51, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

Questions

• 1. The article says "Dīn-i Ilāhī appears to have survived Akbar according to the Dabestān-e Mazāheb of Mohsin Fani. However, the movement was suppressed by penalty and force after his death and was totally eradicated by Aurangzeb, a task made easier by the fact that the religion never had more than 19 adherents.[8][4]" - In the source number 8 there is no about the destruction of the sect by Aurangazeb, the source number 4 is without pages and its volume is too large to view.
• 2. The article card says "Defunct Likely 1606", but the article says "In the 17th century, an attempt to re-establish the Dīn-i-Ilāhī was made by Shah Jahan's eldest son, Dara Shikoh,[9] but any prospects of an official revival were halted by his brother, Aurangzeb, who executed him[10]", Judging by the article Dara Shikoh he was executed in 1659, but source 10 has no pages to check.
• 3. In source 8 it is written that there were no more than 19 people in the sect, and in the preamble of the article "Members 21; also there were several influenced followers".

Vyacheslav84 (talk) 19:21, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 16 September 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Din-i Ilahi → Din-i-Ilahi – It's written that way many times throughout the page itself, also cf. Sirr-i-Akbar or Kitáb-i-Aqdas etc. MagnusRegnumAntichristiAdvenit (talk) 20:25, 15 September 2023 (UTC) This is a contested technical request (permalink). MagnusRegnumAntichristiAdvenit (talk) 07:54, 16 September 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. EggRoll97 ^(talk) 03:51, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose per this and this. Srnec (talk) 11:43, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

  Doesnt matter, we have to be consistent and there more Urdu/Persian examples containing "-i-" than "-i". MagnusRegnumAntichristiAdvenit (talk) 08:05, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.