Talk:Surbiton

Food drink & Entertainment

Is the blatent plug (probably by the business owners themselves) for an otherwise unremarkable Fish and Chip shop and Delicatessen really necessary? Maybe worth a mention as a directory of commercial establishments but nothing more. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.241.97.100 (talk) 16:44, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Notable People

Who is this kryzyiac person? There is no page about him, nothing can be found about him No sources were given to indicate that he does live here, therefore I think its more likely an attempt at fame by the author. Besides, would an unknown games developer count as a notable person? Im a Sysadmin.. shall I add myself as a notable person?

More than likely this person added it themselves. Since it means nothing and no further info can be gained, it is essentially redundant information therefore I removed it.

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I had to do the same thing again today (25/11).

Surbiton High School For Girls

I've removed the blatant plug for Surbiton High School. If they want to advertise their school, let them do it elsewhere.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.3.95.58 (talk)

As I believe they have at Surbiton High School. I believe it is an aspiration of wiki to have an article on every school, but certainly your elision of a piece of powder-puff is no great loss. Kbthompson 11:57, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

freelist

I removed the stuff from freelist.com as it is copyright according to their website: FreeLists.com established 1996 © online 1998 All rights reserved. MRSC 06:57, 18 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Boundaries

Some mention should be made of the constantly shifting unofficial boundaries of Surbiton. I've just read in an Estate Agent's window 'Beautiful Apartment on the outskirts of Surbiton - directly opposite Tolworth Station'!!

Well technically all the towns around here are part of the borough of Kingston, so technically it's actually on the outskirts of Kingston, but split hairs, etc. --62.49.128.77 05:14, 12 March 2006 (UTC) Andreus

I agree about the shifting boundaries. I've got an idea that the name "surbiton" actually means "southern grange", and on the earliest Ordnance Survey maps of the early 19th century, the built-up area of Surbiton extended no further south than the northern end of what is now Maple Road. There was definitely a village at Long Ditton, and at Tolworth, but the area around Waitrose and the railway station was just fields.

It seems that Surbiton was simply a farm at the south of Kingston, which belonged to the manor of Kingston, and unlike Tolworth, it was not a separate village from Kingston. Although the name "Surbiton" has been around since medieval times, it appears that Surbiton did not develop an identity as a separate community from Kingston until the railway came along in the 1830's.

So it seems odd that Tolworth might be considered an outskirt of Surbiton! Although I think the name of Surbiton pre-dates the name of Tolworth - I think the current location of Tolworth predates the current location of Surbiton by several hundred years. I'll try to nose out more sources, though. Squashy 23:50, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Tolworth was part of the pre-1965 Borough of Surbiton and I regard it as part of Surbiton. LynwoodF (talk) 13:22, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Tolworth I believe dates from at least the Domesday book so may well pre-date Surbiton as I didn't find any reference to the latter at http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/domesday/. --Robidy (talk) 14:36, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Tolworth was indeed mentioned in Domesday Book, but that does not alter the fact that it became a part of the former Borough of Surbiton. Modern Surbiton was founded round about 1838. The name was previously applied to a hamlet of Kingston parish situated further north. Things change. Tolworth was absorbed into the upstart new town. I find the discussion above very odd. LynwoodF (talk) 16:05, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Times do indeed change, just as the administrative parish of Tolworth in the County of Surrey was absorbed into the administrative Borough of Surbiton again in the County of Surrey, that it turn was absorbed into the administrative Royal Borough of Kingston-Upon-Thames (hyphens and capitalisation of the U, long since dropped) this time as part of Greater London.

Surbiton is still known as Surbiton and Tolworth is still known as Tolworth...not to mention the area formerly known as Berrylands Dairy is still known as Berrylands, despite being Surbiton you'll often find houses advertised as being in Berrylands - these are all clear geographical areas on Google Maps in the present day too.

The confusion often arises due to Tolworth being in the postcodes of KT5 and KT6 which both reside in the postal district of Surbiton, along with Berrylands and Tolworth. You then of course have the Anglican and Catholic parishes of Tolworth which extend beyond the traditional area known as Tolworth.

Sadly due to perceived financial gain properties in Tolworth are often advertised as Surbiton which is postally correct however geographically incorrect and administratively incorrect as they would be in the Kingston Council Wards of either Tolworth and Hook Rise, Alexandra or Surbiton Hill. Sadly there are many such cases throughout the country, all to often exploited for either financial gain or snobbery. I hope this helps. Robidy (talk) 17:52, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Railway myth

According to Julie Sampson's "The Kingston Book" ISBN 1905286058 there was never a plan to put long distance railway lines "through" Kingston. The original plan was to skirt the bottom of Surbiton Hill - I guess she means somewhere around where the Assembly Rooms and Maple Road is now.

Thinking about it, this makes sense - because if the South coast line ran much closer to Kingston than the Assembly Rooms - or Penrhyn Road at a push - then it would either have to cut through Kingston Hill/Coombe Hill, or it would have had to cross the Thames twice, either of which would have involved very significant groundwork and construction.

Reaching Kingston but avoiding Kingston Hill and the Thames would mean a very sharp turn. But I'm not enough of a railway buff to know what turning circles trains can do. They plumped for a cutting through Surbiton Hill instead, though. How did that happen, and why?

We don't want the article to perpetuate myths. But there's no doubt that the railway expansion was significant to Surbiton, so I'm not suggesting we don't mention it at all. Okay, you could say the same thing for practically all London commuter belt suburbs, but I think there are things that make Surbiton different. For example, the railway expansion enabled the Victorian-era wealthy middle classes to make one-way leisure boat trips on the Thames, and Surbiton was particularly well placed to take advantage of this trade.

Point is, there are conflicting sources, and I don't know how to word it to make the known facts clear. Squashy 02:20, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I too have read that it was a bit of a myth about going straight through the center of Kingston, but to go up slightly closer to the then outskirts. I will try and remember where I read that, definitely not in a book by Julie Sampson. I believe that a cutting was chosen though Surbiton Hill as that provided an easy and cheap source for soil/stone etc to build the railway banks that the lines run on either side of Surbiton, as back then it was far more marshy, e.g. around what is now Berrylands, and between Hersham and Esher where the line crosses the River Mole. Jrhilton 21:20, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Formerly part of Surrey?

In our article about William Heinemann it reads that he "was born in 1863, in Surbiton, Surrey." Could Surbiton have been part of Surrey at that time or is it more likely that this information is incorrect? If it is correct, when were the borders moved? __meco (talk) 11:59, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

This does not appear to have been answered, either here or elsewhere. Surbiton was a borough of Surrey until 1965, when it was incorporated into the newly created Greater London area. LynwoodF (talk) 22:06, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

What's a court?

The article starts by saying there are many Art Deco courts -- what is that? Maybe it should be linked to something for those unfamiliar with English city terms, or whatever it is. --AW (talk) 18:14, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

I live in the Surbiton area and I find this usage rather odd. Court is often used in the names of blocks of flats, but not in isolation as a generic term, at least not in the version of English I use. LynwoodF (talk) 22:30, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Neighbouring towns - lead section

A recent edit of an innocuous passing comment has created anomalies of which the editor may not be aware if he/she is not from this area. Until 1965 Kingston was called Kingston-upon-Thames (with hyphens). The hyphens were removed to distinguish the new expanded Royal Borough from the old one. Richmond, like both Surbiton and Kingston, was in Surrey until 1965. The expression 'Richmond, London' was not in use before the creation of Greater London. I shall restore the original simple wording while leaving the links intact. See also the articles on Municipal Borough of Kingston-upon-Thames and Municipal Borough of Richmond (Surrey). LynwoodF (talk) 13:46, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Etymology

Though Surbiton only received its current name in 1869, the name is attested as Suberton in 1179, Surbeton in 1263, Surpeton in 1486, and finally Surbiton 1597.

I can make no sense of that. So what was it called between 1597 and 1869, if not Surbiton? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.138.86.210 (talk) 10:30, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

@Philly boy92: added the text concerned, and may be able to explain? --David Biddulph (talk) 10:40, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

Modern Surbiton did not exist until the arrival of the railway. The new development was first called "Kingston-on-Railway", but later the name was transferred from the hamlet where Surbiton Road, Kingston now is. See Thomas Pooley. LynwoodF (talk) 11:02, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

Well we don't have a mention of Surbiton for every year since 1179. We only have specific mentions that show the evolution of the name: Suberton > Surbeton > Surpeton >Surbiton > (Kingston-upon-Railway) > Surbiton. To say that it was always called Surbiton is inaccurate, and the etymology section reflects that. Perhaps a more appropriate wording would be "Though Surbiton only officially received its current name in 1869..." --Michail (blah) 14:22, 31 December 2018 (UTC)