Talk:Rake (stock character)

Removal of Prodigal Son from the list

While there is no doubt that the character of the Prodigal Son, spoken of by Jesus in parable form, is young and riotous, he nevertheless does not fit the description of a Rake.

If a Rake is to be described as a young man who impregnates a young woman and then leaves her in social and/or financial ruin, then the Prodigal Son does not fit this description. Although the young man is described as riotous and indulging himself in parties, in Jesus' parable there is no description of the man having a sexual relationship with a woman and then leaving her.

If the description of Rake in this article is broader than what has been described in the opening paragraph, and can be referred generally to riotous young men, then I will be happy to revert this change - so long as the opening paragraph is changed as well. --One Salient Oversight 00:53, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)

You are right, in that the description as it stood is mostly about a cad rather than a rake; I have expanded it a bit. -- Smerdis of Tlön 04:23, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Rake should go to the TOOL

Just my opinion, but when someone looks up rake, chances are they are looking up the tool. Themindset 01:09, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

I second this. - furrykef (Talk at me) 02:55, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

Indeed. If there are no objections, I'm going to at the very least put up a disamb. page. --Matt Yeager 03:49, August 14, 2005 (UTC)

It should probably be changed to 'Cad'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.229.224.133 (talk) 20:19, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Fictional Rakes

Um... I never realized Lord Byron was fictional?

He wasn't! I've moved him. Rsimmonds01 22:36, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Proposed Move

I'd like to move this page and make Rake the disambiguation page. Any comments and/or suggestions for the new name? Was thinking Rake (drama) or Rake (character). Maybe someone who knows more about the topic could suggest something. SilentC 01:51, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Definition is too narrow

A rake need not be a fictional character. See the Shorter Oxford: "A fashionable or stylish person, esp. a man, of dissolute or promiscuous habits." In Wikipedia, Francis Dashwood (a historical figure) is described as a rake. -- Rsholmes 01:37, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Then perhaps he should be added to the list here. --Davecampbell 17:23, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

"Rakehell"? or not?

Initially the article says the word is a contraction of "rakehell" but later on it says this is a folk (false) etymology. 70.19.88.122 19:38, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Link doesn't work

The link at the bottom of the page to an external site doesn't work any more. I'm trying to work out what it referred to before. Unless anyone has any objections, I'll delete it.

I've now deleted the link. DJ Lemsip 15:51, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Is Rake gender specific?

After searching a few dictionaries and a quick google search, I find no mention of this term applying exclusively to men, but rather to people. The article on the other hand seems to beg to differ. Any thoughts? Ardent^†alk_∈ 23:43, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

As far as I know, yes it is gender specific - just as terms such as "slut" only apply to women nowadays.

Rake in Restoration Comedy

I would like to add the categories of the Rake in Restoration comedy. Additions welcome. Dalmatiner Henry (talk) 13:42, 9 December 2008 (UTC) The section on the rake is taken from my edition of Sir Charles Sedley's comedies "The Mulberry-Garden" and "Bellamira: or, The Mistress. (Holger Hanowell).Dalmatiner Henry (talk) 20:31, 9 December 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dalmatiner Henry (talk • contribs) 20:13, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

A bounder and a cad

The OED says:

• a bounder is "a person of objectionable manners or anti-social behaviour."
• a cad is "a fellow of low vulgar manners and behaviour. (An offensive and insulting appellation.)"

Bob Boothby (nicknamed "The Bounder" - seducing Macmillan's wife and all that) was famously called "a bounder, but not a cad" by the Queen Mother. Saying that someone's behaviour is anti-social is not the same as saying it is "low and vulgar". The article is wrong about the social connotations of the two words.

Consider also the quotation the OED has for cad from the 1868 book Lessons of Middle Age (p142): "You cannot make a vulgar offensive cad conduct himself as a gentleman." Tsinfandel (talk) 00:29, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, a low born ungentlemanly cad is definately not to be confused with an aristocratic rake. The words have different meanings and refer to different social types who lived in different periods. "Rake" is a 17th century word (derived from "rakehell") and "cad" is eighteenth century (derived from "caddie" - meaning someone looking for employment...Colin4C (talk) 20:59, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Note also that the wikipedia is not a dictionary in which terms are given definition. It is an encyclopedia about real things in the real world. The "rake" was a well known character in life and on the stage in the 17th century and later. Dragging in such recherche slang words of a different era and different meaning as cad, and bounder and heel is inaccurate, inappropriate and just plain weird. Colin4C (talk) 21:32, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

This is the sheerest imbecility. Macmillan's biography by Horne (2nd volume) makes it quite clear there are clearly perceptible differences between cads and bounders, mainly concerning the protagonist's ability to seduce his colonel's wife and win the VC with it. The differences between the concepts are palpable.

Wikipedia ought not to group these concepts together, still less subsume them under the inappropriate Georgian term of "rake", and attribute differences as merely linguistical, protesting, naively and vainly, that Wiktionary shall be the appropriate forum to sort wheat from chaff - as "Colin4C" seems happy to do with his fortuitous lack of comprehension of the vagarities of the English language.

Our friend Colin (Hunt?) is not a Septic - perhaps he should behave on Wikipedia as such? Marplesmustgo (talk) 16:31, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

According to my 1984 copy of “The Compleet Molesworth”, pp 144-6 tell us that “Cads have always a grandmother who is the DUCHESS of BLANK hem hem. They are inclined to cheat at conkers having baked them for 300 years in the ancestral ovens.” And much more. Mr Larrington (talk) 00:48, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

Lists

Editors, do feel free to add referenced info to the appropriate (historical or fictional) prose sections of this article, rather than compiling vast redundant, original research, unreferenced lists at the end. Colin4C (talk) 08:27, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Terms and gender

For men there are: cad, bounder, rake, rascal, rogue, blackguard...

For women is there anything more than adventuress and slut? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.195.193.37 (talk) 12:13, 13 July 2011 (UTC)