Talk:Livonian Brothers of the Sword

Estonia Mid‑importance

Livonian Brothers of the Sword is part of WikiProject Estonia, a project to maintain and expand Estonia-related subjects on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.EstoniaWikipedia:WikiProject EstoniaTemplate:WikiProject EstoniaEstonia articles

Mid

This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

To-do list:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Article requests : WikiProject Estonia/Missing articles
Assess : Rate each tagged article by quality and importance to the WikiProject if it has not been done. (See Category:Unassessed Estonia articles)
Infobox : Add infoboxes to articles without it
Maintain : Portal:Estonia
Photo : Upload and/or add a photo to articles without it (See Category:Wikipedia requested photographs in Estonia)
Stubs : Add info to stub-articles and check for start-class.

Military history: Biography / Baltic states / European / German / Medieval / Crusades

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion not met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	Military biography task force
	Baltic states military history task force
	European military history task force
	German military history task force
	Medieval warfare task force (c. 500 – c. 1500)
	Crusades task force

Latvia High‑importance

	Latvia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Latvia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Latvia related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.LatviaWikipedia:WikiProject LatviaTemplate:WikiProject LatviaLatvia articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Middle Ages Low‑importance

	Middle Ages portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Middle Ages, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Middle Ages on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Middle AgesWikipedia:WikiProject Middle AgesTemplate:WikiProject Middle AgesMiddle Ages articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Organizations

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Organizations, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Organizations on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.OrganizationsWikipedia:WikiProject OrganizationsTemplate:WikiProject Organizationsorganization articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Former countries

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Former countries, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of defunct states and territories (and their subdivisions). If you would like to participate, please join the project.Former countriesWikipedia:WikiProject Former countriesTemplate:WikiProject Former countriesformer country articles

Untitled[edit]

I'm trying to update and correct this page as much (and scholarly/historcally correct) as possible. I wasn't the original author though.

Regards

Moenstah (student of the department of medieval history, State University Groningen)

I translated most of the info from Polish sources. I'd be happy to work with you on this, but it would be much easier if you would create a Wiki account. Tnx for your input so far, take care. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 19:37, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Merge[edit]

This should be merged with Schwertbrüder under current (English) name. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 3 July 2005 14:26 (UTC)

Article name[edit]

Anyone interested in possibly moving this article to a shorter name? Unlike "Teutonic Knights" for the Prussian branch, there does not seem to be an overwhelmingly accepted term in English for the Livonian branch.

Google (keep in mind wiki-mirrors):

Google Books:

Google Scholar:

Columbia uses "Livonian Brothers of the Sword" and Britannica uses "Order of the Brothers of the Sword". Britannica 1911 used, among others, "Livonian Knights"[1], "Knights of the Sword" [2],[3], and "Brethren of the Sword"[4],[5].

In some books I have in my posession, Norman Davies uses Brothers of the Sword in Europe: A History; Nicholas V. Riasanovsky uses Livonian order in A History of Russia; Polish Scientific Publishers uses Livonian Order of the Knights of the Sword in History of Poland; Desmond Seward uses Sword Brethren in The Monks of War: The Military Religious Orders; William Urban uses Swordbrothers in The Teutonic Knights: A Military History, while Eric Christensen uses Sword-Brothers in The Northern Crusades; David Kirby uses Livonian Knights of the Sword and Livonian Order in Northern Europe in the Early Modern Period: The Baltic World 1492-1772; and Oscar Halecki uses Sword Bearers in A History of Poland.

Based on the Google Books and Scholar results, "Livonian Order" and "Livonian Knights" seem to be the most common terminology used in English publications. Olessi 19:35, 19 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Livonian Knights would have the advantage of being in the same system as Teutonic Knights.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 20:10, 19 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Why no mention of the Battle of St. Matthew's Day, which could be one of their more important victories? PatGallacher 11:44, 7 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fix needed[edit]

I'm sorry to point out that here is another a bit messed up article on WP. first of all, the Livonian order was no state like suggested in the article, the state was called Livonian Confederation AKA Old Livonia. Livonian Brothers of the Sword , established in 1201 as Fratres Militiae Christi was the name of the order until 1235. After the defeat in Battle of Saule the Fratred Militiae Christi or the Livonian Brothers of the Sword in 1235/7 joined the the Teutonic Order (Ordo Domus Santae Mariae Teuronicum). Hence forth the Teutonic Order's new Baltic branch has become known as Livonain Order. So there is the difference, there was Livonian Brothers of the Sword and thereafter there was the Livonian order that was in alliance with or a part of the Teutonic Order. These things should be fixed up on WP I think. The current article should be about the order until 1235 and Livonian Order, the current redirect should be about the order's history from 1235 on until it's end during the Livonian War.--Termer (talk) 22:13, 17 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

PS. Also, the insignia was different, the Livonian Brothers of the Sword used the red sword and cross, the Livonian order used just a cross like the Teutonic Order--Termer (talk) 22:27, 17 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, indeed you are correct. I've updated the template Template:History Timeline of Estonia with Livonian Confederation and moved it to that article. Martintg (talk) 00:51, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Also, in the illustration, the Brother on the left bears the arms of the Teutonic Order, while the one on the right has the Sword Brothers' arms; the illustration is labeled as depicting "Sword Brothers" and ought to reflect that the two are not of the same Order. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.113.8.138 (talk) 14:17, 17 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Is it true that these were, informally speaking, a bunch of prize bastards?[edit]

as it says, thanks 92.2.139.67 (talk) 21:54, 24 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Reverted Editions[edit]

I would like that the user Materialscientist add in the talk page why my editions should be reverted before reverting all of them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Knewdates (talk • contribs) 29 September 2020 (UTC)