Talk:Knuckles the Echidna in Sonic the Hedgehog 2

The T: Please understand that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and that we try to write encyclopedic articles. That means that we try to move information to where it is relevant -- unlike, say, Everything2, we do not try to have as many pages as possible. If a page contains only very little information, it often makes sense to merge it with another page. This is what several people have suggested here, and what I have done. If everything you can say about this "game" is

It is identical to Sonic the Hedgehog 2, except you play as Knuckles throughout all of it.

it really makes no sense to have a separate article about it. The relevant information is already in the Sonic the Hedgehog 2 article, so it's perfectly acceptable to link to that article instead. Your comment in the changelog "I'm going to report whoever keeps changing it if they keep it up" suggests a further lack of understanding -- you don't own pages, if you want to work on Wikipedia, you should try to discuss changes and find meaningful compromises instead of reverting changes and threatening to "report" them. --Eloquence

First of all, there is more information that what is stated above. I created this page simply as a basis for more information to be added. That is what Wikipedia is about, isn't it? It's simpler to look through different articles with smaller information that larger articles with some information you may need. For example, if you want to know about Sonic & Knuckles, you go to that article. Someone looking for information on that may not want information on Blue Sphere or Knuckles the Echidna in Sonic the Hedgehog 2. I think it'd be much more beneficial to keep it in this manner, instead of continuously deleting it. And for god's sake, at least know what you're talking about before you go changing things. -- The T

" identical to Sonic the Hedgehog 2, with the exception that you play as Knuckles throughout all of it. " What more is there to say then? Is this going to be an exact clone of Sonic the Hedgehog 2 except for the fact that Knuckles is the only playable character? --mav

By stating that the game remains identical except for the changed character you have already defined the scope of the article - what more is there to add? You may think that it should be, but Wikipedia is not a collection of "information stubs", which is why we have a whole page that's called Wikipedia:Find or fix a stub. If an article can not be anything but a stub, it is not an article in the Wikipedia sense. From a usability perspective, having too many small articles makes updating harder, linking harder, and reading harder.

If you can make a case that this page can be expanded meaningfully to become an article on its own, do so. Otherwise I will undo the changes again. --Eloquence

This page or this principle is not worth an edit war. Let the guy write it. If it is important, more stuff will come, if not, who cares? Personally, I think that one article on the "Sonic family of games" makes more sense, but if there is more than one article on this "family" then why not this one too? Ortolan88

Both I and Mav are perfectly willing to let The T expand the article, if he can make a case that it can be expanded meaningfully. A permanent, unfixable stub article is not acceptable. --Eloquence

I don't get it. What are you and Mav all het up about? This is just one more fan type page, done up as an encyclopedia article, on a variant in a game. It should be expandable. I'd like to know what difference it makes to be "playing as Knuckles". Does Knuckles have the same powers as Sonic, etc. Believe me, I don't care, and I still think one article on the whole group of games would be more meaningful, but there must be some reason for going to all that trouble to play as Knuckles, but if you old hands keep banging on the article we'll never know. Ortolan88

Well, Knuckles' amazing powers are already discussed in the Knuckles article. :-) Our goal is to cut down redundancy, reduce the number of stub articles, and, more importantly, prevent what looks like it may become a permanent stub. (I am equally annoyed by many one sentence Tolkien mythology pages which likely refer to one sentence in the Tolkien books and are unlikely to be ever expanded much.) As we reach Britannica-like dimensions, stuff like consistency and style becomes more relevant. Being pedantic and trying to fix violations of established policies is important, especially when the page in question is unlikely to be reviewed by a large number of people, as is the case here. --Eloquence

Okay, assuming I can't become Knuckles any other way, this is really a passing note in the Knuckles article and it is a disservice to the reader to have "how I become Knuckles" separated from "Knuckles in the hedgehog world". You all were sounding pretty officious and I wanted to know why. Ortolan88

Well, I think it's understandable to get a bit irritated after your edits have just been reverted with the comment "I'll report you if you do this again" (paraphrased), no? Sometimes it's a good idea to listen to the "old hands". --Eloquence

Didn't exactly the same thing happen to him? And why should he know you were "old hands"? And shouldn't "old hands" know to keep calm and let things sort themselves out over a reasonable period? Ortolan88

1) No. 2) That's easy to find out, especially if he is a newbie. 3) Things don't just magically "sort themselves out". --Eloquence

It would be nice if the title of the article were reflected in the text of the article. -- Zoe

If I followed all the above correctly, there is no need for an article since this snippet of information should be in the main "Knuckles" article. Ortolan88

I don't know where to begin, so I'm just going to start off another branch here. The things that could be added are things only Knuckles can get to, any codes specifically for this, game play tips, and any other changes in the game. None of which I have the time to do, so I'm leaving it open for someone else by creating a small "stub". Is that good enough for you? I'm sure there's a plently large list of things that fit into "things only Knuckles can get to," and as I said I don't have the current time to go find them. So once again, is that good enough for you? - The T

I say let's leave it in the current redirect state until someone can think of something interesting to say about this specific "extra" game. --Eloquence

But they won't know to unless it's here. ¬_¬;; -The T

In addition, why don't you bother shutting down Blue Sphere and preventing Sonic 3 & Knuckles? Not that I want you to, of course, I'm just pointing it out. - The T

Blue Sphere is a separate game, whereas "Knuckles the Echidna in Sonic the Hedgehog 2" is the arbitrary title you have given to the variant of an existing game where the lead character is exchanged. You have provided more information about BS than about KESH2, and you have stated that you're not willing to provide more info about KESH2 either (whether it can be meaningfully expanded is still an open question, as the character Knuckles is already described in its own article, so it would really have to be about differences between the two "games" Sonic 2 and Knuckles in Sonic 2). There's probably no other person on WP for some time to come who cares about this page or this "game". To take an analogy, the Mario Party series of games has been summarized in a single article because there's simply not enough information yet to justify separate articles, and these are truly separate game. In general, unless someone says "Yes, there's more info and I'll write a detailed article" we try to reduce redundancy as much as possible. --Eloquence