Talk:Flight control surfaces

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New article[edit]

New author. Please help me with formatting and wikification. Any appropriate graphics would be appreciated. Thanks! Skeetch 22:00, Nov 5, 2003 (UTC)

Intranet link[edit]

- *Controls - Selkirk Collage Aviation Intranet: Notes on a wide range of aviation subjects.

This link - now removed by another user, is actually part of an intranet, not the internet, so it won't be visible to anyone outside the intranet. Peter Manchester 21:06, 18 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Yaw[edit]

Hi everyone, Adverse yaw is not a secondary effect of the ailerons. It is a primary effect. The secondary is a yaw in the same direction as the bank. Example: You bank left and at first the nose travels right and up (part of the primary effects of the aileron) but then the windvane effect of the fin makes the nose go left-down (secondary). This is not so pronunciated in UL:s and other airplanes with relatively short wingspan but it is a matter of life and death to a glider pilot. /Nick the glider instructor :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.65.226.232 (talk) 07:08, 8 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Skeetch, I believe you are making a common miscoception about yaw, roll and pitch. The three axes are relative to the aircraft, not to the ground. Therefore the rudder always causes the aircraft to yaw, the elevators always cause a pitch change, and the ailerons always cause a roll change. Ailerons cause yaw as a secondary effect, and rudder causes roll as a secondary effect.

Turning is not the same as yawing. An aircraft in a coordinated bank turns but does not yaw.

In short: Effects of controls are:

  • Elevators: primary pitch
  • Rudder: primary yaw, secondary roll
  • Aileron: primary roll, secondary yaw

Change of heading is not the same as yaw. For example, in a 90 degree bank they are not related at all.

This site, although it is about models, explains it well. http://www.bmfa.org/faq/flight_controls.htm also http://www.holdfastmac.com.au/techair3.html

It's also not generally true that neutralising the elevators returns the pitch to what it was. In general to recover from a nose-down attitude, for example, it is necessary to pull bak on the controls to raise the nose. It will not usually come up by itself.

DJ Clayworth 19:34, 19 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Yes, the (hidden) assumption for all these effects is an intial attitude of straight and level flight at constant speed and altitude. The goal was to give the uninformed reader an introduction to the subject. An instructional treatise for student pilots needs to cover all situations and variables in detail. That was purposefully outside my scope for this article. Skeetch


A sensible approach, and one of the reasons I added the disclaimer a the start. I think we can get the basics across without having to confuse turning with yawing, which will only confuse people who actually fly. I've given this a go - what do you think? DJ Clayworth 14:18, 20 Nov 2003 (UTC)

The section on 'Trimming Tail Plane' implies that all large aircraft use a fully movable tailplane for trimming. I'm pretty sure that ,for example, a 747 doesn't do this. Can anyone clarify? DJ Clayworth 14:02, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I have the same problem with this section. Having owned a Partenavia P68 (a light twin) I know it had a "trimming tail plane" as it is described in this article although I seem to remember it was called a stabilator. The photograph of the Airbus 319 appears to show a fixed horizontal stabilizer with an elevator. This site provides a description of these and even goes into some detail on V tails (which are briefly mentioned in the Wikipedia article) and canards (which don't get a mention in the article). --CloudSurfer 05:13, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Proposed merger[edit]

On august 4, 2005, user:Trevor MacInnis proposed that this article be merged with airplane flight mechanics.

I oppose as I feel that this is a significantly detailed topic to warrant its own article. ericg ✈ 05:22, 16 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with this merger, because airplane flight mechanics largely duplicates the matter here. This is the better article, and airplane flight mechanics should redirect here. Only a small amount of info should need to be copies across. However I would suggest a rename to airplane flight controls because those for e.g. balloons and helicopters are both very different and not covered here. DJ Clayworth 17:34, 16 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest that a merger with Flight dynamics would make more sense as it is currently a stub and most of its content is covered here already. Lucas42 14:29, 26 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

a comment to your picture: if you press the right pedal in an airplane it will yaw to the right. In the picture the effect is inverted.

April 17, 2006 From an unregistered user to be identified as Commander_Shrek:

There are a couple nice things about having separate yet related articles: 1) The information is not clumped in one space thus simplifying information in each spot. 2) Users searching for pages will have a better shot at finding what they're looking for if there are related pages with different names.

The part about turning an aircraft definitely does not belong under flight controls but under flight dynamics. Yeah, I just edited that section. Yes, I'm arguing for the removal, or at the very least merging, of what I just rewrote. Daft move? No comments... Effte (talk) 22:08, 22 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Alternative control techniques[edit]

Comment from Dave Ashley (dashley@gmail.com)

The article about control of aircraft in the absence of flight control is incomplete. At minimum, these additional techniques exist (some of which won't work with large aircraft):

1)Redistributing weight within the aircraft (having all the passengers move to the front or back or to one side, or redistributing fuel).

2)Changing the flap setting (this changes the pitch behavior A LOT).

3)Using the landing gear.

4)Opening the door(s) of the aircraft and pushing them against the airstream to create a ruddering effect (presumably only works on light airplanes).

5)Kicking out the windshield or rear window to change the flight dynamics (changes things quite a lot in a light airplane).

6)Using trim adjustment (some of these are independent of the other controls, depending on the specifics of the aircraft).

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.235.182.135 (talk) 03:38, 6 July 2007‎ (UTC)[reply]

Commentary in Dutch and Greek (to me)[edit]

je hebt ook nog onderscheid tussen primaire en secundaire flight controls —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.90.216.167 (talk) 20:26, 3 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

According to Bing, this seems to be Dutch for "You've also got distinction between primary and secondary flight controls". —BarrelProof (talk) 16:58, 3 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

are thrust reversers no secundairi flightcontrols —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.90.216.167 (talk) 20:31, 3 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Which seems to mean something like "Aren't thrust reversers considered secondary flight controls?" —BarrelProof (talk) 16:58, 3 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Invention of control surfaces[edit]

I would suggest that the article mention that the wright brothers invented control surfaces, at it was the basis of the patent application. gliders before the wright's were controled by body movement. Also the wrights used warping of flexible structures. Glen Curtis tried to skirt the patent by using hindged panels. Saltysailor (talk) 07:43, 1 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 3 February 2016[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Withdrawn. Per the comment below, plural seems to be appropriate for the name of an article about a class of objects. —BarrelProof (talk) 15:37, 3 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Flight control surfaces → Flight control surface – WP:SINGULAR. It does not seem too awkward to talk about a single aircraft control surface. The article can start with some phrasing such as "A flight control surface is an element of an aircraft that allows a pilot to adjust and control the aircraft's flight attitude." —BarrelProof (talk) 02:11, 3 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose. WP:SINGULAR does not apply to "classes of objects". A pilot requires use of all the control surfaces to properly control the attitude. Burninthruthesky (talk) 07:48, 3 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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