Talk:Tartan Day

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Scottish National Tourist Board[edit]

Resolved
 – This (and more) is now more encyclopedically covered.

It says "the Scottish national tourist board, now exploits the festivities to promote tourism in Scotland". I think that comment is unfair and the words "now exploits the festivities to promote tourism in Scotland" should not be in an encyclopedia. This is the opinion of someone I feel. It this is an official quote it should be stated. Scot24 12:42, 5 April 2010

It is true, and there are sources for it, which I'll get to later, but it certainly shouldn't be phrased in negative, unencyclopedic language like that.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  00:00, 27 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Done, with a lot more than the tourism board covered.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  01:32, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Pageviews[edit]

I don't know if it made it onto the front page, but just look at the pageviews for 6 April 2009! And interestingly this year saw 4.5x as many viewers as the 4028 hits on 6 April 2008. Well I find that stuff interesting... I guess it'd be nice to have this at GA in time for next year - the quality of the referencing could do with some work, and just general copyediting and filling out some gaps. Le Deluge (talk) 18:54, 15 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Still needs works, because the NZ section is a sect-stub; lots of the sources for the original material of the article can't be verified (offline newspaper stories with no online versions that can be found); coverage of Scottish government and business involvement is heavily US-skewed; coverage of events in Australia, Canada, Argentina, even the US aside from NYC and DC, have not been much explored.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  01:35, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Ambiguous sentence[edit]

Resolved
 – Nonsense removed from article.

"Little was done to follow up the New York event in 1982."

This sentence is coming out of the blue with no clear connection to anything before or after. Unless it's resolved, it should be removed.

ICE77 (talk) 08:32, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It was weird nonsense anyway, since there is no evidence of any such event in 1982. I've removed the material in question.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  00:01, 27 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Additional sources[edit]

This will be pertinent:

  • Hague, Euan (February 2002). "National Tartan Day: Rewriting History in the United States". Scottish Affairs. 38 (1). Edinburgh University Press: 94–124. ISSN 2053-888X.

More:

  • Cowan, Edward J. (2005). "Tartan Day in America". In Ray, Celeste (ed.). Transatlantic Scots. The University of Alabama Press. pp. 48–95. ISBN 9780817314736.
  • Barrow, Geoffrey, ed. (2003). The Declaration of Arbroath: History, Significance, Setting. Edinburgh: Society of Antiquaries of Scotland. ISBN 090390327X. – Has a chapter on Tartan Day.

 — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  02:21, 2 August 2023 (UTC); rev'd. 15:02, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Change to non-US ENGVAR and date format[edit]

I propose changing the English variety and date format used in this article away from American, since a) the event was not invented in the US and is not closely associated with the US (it was invented in Canada, and is associated with numerous countries); and b) it's jarring to be reading all the Scotland- and Highland-dress-related articles in what can generally be called Commonwealth English only to have this one article veer into American spellings and date order; and c) it's editorially a butt-pain, because source citations cannot just be copied from one article to another but have to be edited for date formatting, and if material is merged into this article or out of it, the spellings will have to change. I'm willing to do the conversion in this article; should only take a few minutes. PS: The article was not entirely consistently using a single DATEVAR, but was leaning strongly enough American I thought it worth asking (and normalizing that and the spelling to American in the interim to agree with the general pattern; it's better that it be in one not-necessarily ideal variant than veering back and forth between two).  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  13:28, 23 July 2023 (UTC); postscript added 04:30, 27 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Yes. Changing to the non-US language and date format is justified (totally) since this event is a non-US (European rather) event, meaning that it was not originated in the US. Note that dates with the reference citation do not need to be changed if the proper date template tag is put at the top of the article. With that (date) template, most all of the dates within reference citations will automatically be rendered properly. --L.Smithfield (talk) 11:50, 26 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Technically, it started in Canada, and Australia is probably the main "celebrant" location after .ca and .us, but in the end it would resolve to the same spelling and date formatting changes.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  22:22, 26 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • The possible problem with changing this article to non-US language and dates is that the event is now really a global one, with extensive celebrations within the US. The main photograph featured in the article is a famous actor celebrating the event in Washington, DC in the United States! You might want to change the main image to one that features a celebration in Europe, or perhaps Scotland or Canada. I still support the change to non-US since the event is an international one (but one in which the US now also celebrates). --L.Smithfield (talk) 11:56, 26 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    That won't be the only image when I'm done with the article, though which one comes first won't really be relevant to the question.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  22:22, 26 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • It's a judgement call, but I'd say that this should probably be in Canadian English. The article started out US-centric, but Canada seems to have claim on its origins and is international. It's clearly doesn't have any significance within Scotland. --Escape Orbit (Talk) 13:30, 26 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    The connection with Scotland is that tartans originated (were invented in) in Scotland. There would be no celebrations of tartans if they (tartans) had never been invented in the first place. The Scottish do consider tartans to be a serious and special cultural heritage of theirs (at least as serious as a tartan can be taken), but it is true that it was not Scotland that originated tartan day. I would agree with using Canadian English, since the event originated in Canada (as already mentioned). --L.Smithfield (talk) 16:16, 26 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    And that's not the only Scotland-involving stuff, but I haven't written that material yet. But Canadian English was the template I was going to use. The actual effect on the text will be the same regardless whether it was Canadian or Scottish or Austrlian, since they all use the same spellings for the words in question and (generally) the same non-US date format [Technically, I know a handful of Canadians who prefer "July 26, 2023" date order, but that's just anecdote.]  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  22:22, 26 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • I agree with the change, because there is a connection with Scotland, and also because it has been properly discussed on this talk page. But L. Smithfield seems to be advancing the argument that because it a European event, it should use British spelling and the day-month-year date format. The preference for British spelling and dmy dates only applies if the article is strongly connected to an English-speaking country that follows those customs. If they were about somewhere else in Europe, such as France or Greece, American spelling and dates would be appropriate if they were the choice made when the article was first written. Jc3s5h (talk) 22:15, 26 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Agreed in principle, but the only non-English speaking countries of relevance seem (from research so far) to be France (where the events are defunct) and Argentina; it's mainly about Canada, the US, Australia, NZ, and Scotland itself, which all use DMY format [for the most part] except the US. And a careful read of MOS:ENGVAR makes clear that what the original choice was is basically irrelevant, in that we don't change away from the original choice unless there is a consensus to do so based on good reasons, which is what this discussion is about. That there was an original choice can't be used to short-circuit that kind of consensus discussion or invalidate its reasons. It's just a default to fall back on if the discussion can't come to consensus. :-)  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  22:22, 26 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I was not advocating for British spelling (I made no mention of British spelling), but rather agreeing that Canadian spelling would not be inappropriate (as per my comments above). Actually, my position is that because the event is international, that the spelling used need not be particularly bound to the US spelling (or the US date format). I think that this is the position that user SMcCandlish wanted to inquire about in the first place. --L.Smithfield (talk) 00:16, 27 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - I'll just add that wikiproject Scotland is the only national proj to claim this! Johnbod (talk) 22:35, 26 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I guess we could add others, but probably not France since the events are defunct there; I'm not sure this page would be of any interest at all to France-focused editors, though NZ, AU, etc. ones might care about it, e.g. if they are working on events or holidays.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  04:34, 27 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Done, after poring over the templates' parameter lists.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  01:58, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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