Talk:O Brother, Where Art Thou?

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pete's Surname[edit]

I notice that in the plot summary, no surname is given for Pete, but in the cast list, his surname is listed as "Hogwallop." It is unclear from the movie whether Pete's surname is Hogwallop; it is only certain that Hogwallop is the surname of Cousin Wash. After Pete's betrayal, he says, "Must be my Hogwallop blood," but he also says that his father told him, "Never trust a Hogwallop," something that seems unlikely if it is Pete's (and therefore his father's) surname. Should Hogwallop be removed as Pete's surname in the cast list? SpankyMac (talk) 22:07, 13 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I went ahead and made this change. SpankyMac (talk) 01:56, 15 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I thought I had made this change back in January, but either I was mistaken or it was reverted. Is there any valid argument for listing Pete's surname as Hogwallop? If there's credible information to support this, I am happy to refrain, but it seems clear to me that Pete's surname is not established anywhere in the film or in the film's credits.--SpankyMac (talk) 23:35, 22 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Per this G-search, it appears that many reviewers tend to attribute that last name to Pete. Additionally, that search shows that several cast lists give him that last name as well. Is this enough, in your view, to justify keeping it in the article? As a huge fan of the movie, I'd never really questioned that Hogwallop was his last name. I have always simply attributed the "never trust a Hogwallop" quote to the anachronistic nature of the movie. Unitanode 15:08, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • It's absolutely true that plenty of people take for granted that Pete's last name is Hogwallop, but in the cast lists from IMDB and similar sites, he's only listed as "Pete." I'm not sure how the movie's anachronistic nature would make sense of the "never trust a Hogwallop" line, which makes much more sense to me if Pete's Ma is Wash's Pa's sister, which would account for Pete's Pa's distrust of his in-laws and also Pete's "Hogwallop blood," in addition to strongly implying that Pete's surname is something OTHER than Hogwallop. My main contention, though, is that there's no unqualified evidence within the movie itself just what Pete's surname actually is. --SpankyMac (talk) 11:30, 30 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm changing it back, and if anyone objects, I'm delighted to debate it further.--SpankyMac (talk) 17:32, 1 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • I really don't have much of a problem with this at all. I just watched the movie again, and I'm still of the opinion that the whole "never trust a Hogwallop" is simply irony, but it's not so important as to argue about really. Unitanode 20:20, 1 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's easy enough to edit the text to reflect the possibility that he's named Hogwallop, and I will do so. As for cast lists, the one at IMDB doesn't give anyone's last name but it's clear they have full names. My take as a viewer (and I'm watching the movie now) is that he implies it's his family but that yes, it's ambiguous. Dig the edit.--Pergish1 (talk) 02:15, 7 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I don't dig the edit. I realize that I'm fighting a losing battle here, since someone always comes back and undoes my edit, but the current change doesn't reflect ambiguity, but rather comes down rather firmly on the "Pete Hogwallop" side. People change it back to Hogwallop just because they want it to be Hogwallop, not because there's any real indication that that's what his name is. The movie does not assign Pete a surname, so this article should not, either. Show me an interview with the Coens in which they identify him as Hogwallop, and I'll leave it alone, but it's pretty clear from the context that Pete's Ma had been the Hogwallop in the family, rather than Pete's Pa. I expect to revert this to my previous wording within the next few days. SpankyMac (talk) 03:15, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You're absolutely correct. Pete's last name is never given in the film, but it's stated that he's related to the Hogwallops. The relevant info is:
  • Wash Hogwallop is Pete's cousin. True, this could mean a cousin-once-removed or an even more distant cousin, but to keep things simple (Occam's razor!) we should assume that they're first cousins. Anyway, as Pete says, "Wash is kin!", which is corroborated by Wash: "Sorry Pete, I know we're kin, but ..."
  • Pete: "Pa always said: Never trust a Hogwallop!" - Which only makes sense when Pete's father isn't/wasn't a Hogwallop himself.
  • Pete, reflecting on his supposed treason: "Must be my Hogwallop blood." - Which only makes sense if his "Hogwallop blood" is secondary to his "main family blood". So this quote alone proves that he is a Hogwallop on his mother's side.
  • There's even more known family members, one Cousin Vester (who hanged himself a year come May) and one Uncle Ratliff (who lost most of his cows to anthrax and a boy to mumps). I suppose they're from Pete's mother's side too, since he probably would ask Wash about their shared kin, not about some people Wash isn't related to; but the exact relationship is unclear ("Ratliff" might even be a surname).
To clarify, here's the family tree (the branches of Pete and Wash are pretty certain, while the branches of Cousin Vester and Uncle Ratliff should be taken with a grain of salt):
                                      ┌───────────────┐
                                      │NN Hogwallop   │
                                      │source of the  │
                                      │Hogwallop blood│
                                      └───────┬───────┘
                                    ┌─────────┴────────┬──────────────────────────────────────────────────┬────────────────────────┐
┌────────────────────────┐   ┌──────┴──────┐    ┌──────┴──────┐   ┌──────┐                       ┌────────┴─────────┐   ┌──────────┴─────────┐
│Pete's father, who never│ ∞ │Pete's mother│    │NN Hogwallop │ ∞ │Wash's│                       │   NN Hogwallop   │   │Uncle Ratliff, whose│
│trusted a Hogwallop     │ │ │née Hogwallop│    │Wash's father│ │ │mother│                       │                  │   │cows don't milk     │
└────────────────────────┘ │ └─────────────┘    └─────────────┘ │ └──────┘                       └────────┬─────────┘   └──────────┬─────────┘
                           │                                    │                                         │                        │
                       ┌───┴────┐      ┌────────────────────────┴───────┐   ┌────────────────┐   ┌────────┴─────────┐   ┌──────────┴─────────┐
                       │  Pete  │      │Washington Bartholomew Hogwallop│ ∞ │Cora, who r-u-n-│   │Cousin Vester, who│   │    Boy who died    │
                       │        │      │aka "Cousin Wash"               │ │ │n-o-f-t, looking│   │was foreclosed and│   │    from mumps      │
                       └────────┘      │aka "Judas Iscariot Hogwallop"  │ │ │for answers     │   │hanged himself    │   └────────────────────┘
                                       └────────────────────────────────┘ │ └────────────────┘   └──────────────────┘
                                                                          │
                                                                  ┌───────┴──────┐
                                                                  │Boy who nicked│
                                                                  │the census man│
                                                                  └──────────────┘
Greetings, Tilberg (talk) 19:28, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Down By Law[edit]

Does anyone else notice the plot similarities between this film and Jim Jurmusch's great Down By Law? Subcrop 22:13, 11 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on O Brother, Where Art Thou?. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 19:02, 20 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Tommy Johnson Character[edit]

This article, I believe is incorrect in its ascertaining that Tommy Johnson is based on Robert Johnson. Tommy Johnson (no relation to Robert) was the first to have the story of the crossroads told about him. Tommy was a blues guitarist and his biggest hit was "Canned Heat Blues" because he was such a bad alcoholic that he would get cans of sterno and drink the liquid fuel in the cans. That's what the song's about. There are many who say Robert only told people about his 'deal with the devil' because he had heard of Tommy Johnson's "deal" and thought the talk of it might be sensational and help his career.

As an aside, in a different movie - Crossroads, starring Ralph Macchio and Joe Seneca, a secondary character in a juke joint is called "Lydale", which ironically was Tommy Johnson's brother and a minister who told everyone about his brother's deal with the devil. Lydale is the creator of this folklore.

I would like to change the bullet point about Tommy Johnson's role to reflect true history.

mhaize george melton — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mhaize (talk • contribs) 04:51, 24 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Production companies and distributors[edit]

FilmandTVFan28, if you have a source for these production companies and distributors, you can add them back. However, the American Film Institute says that Working Title Films is the sole production company. The distributors are unsourced besides what AFI listed. Per WP:BURDEN, please do not re-add this unsourced content until you properly source it. Keep in mind that the IMDb is user-generated content and not a reliable source. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 14:22, 25 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

That will not be necessary for I've quickly withdrew my support for this article and the film itself. — FilmandTVFan28 (talk) 18:43, 25 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Tommy Johnson[edit]

The description for Tommy Johnson has two links to the same page. Wolf O'Donnel (talk) 17:31, 12 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You are correct. I apologize for implying you were vandalizing. ---The Old JacobiteThe '45 19:04, 12 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 4 external links on O Brother, Where Art Thou?. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 18:51, 1 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

1937 setting and Baby Face Nelson[edit]

Is the setting really 1937? The film has Baby Face Nelson in it, who died in 1934. Is this artistic muddling of facts or is the claimed 1937 setting wrong?

  • See several film errors here: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0190590/goofs — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.161.8.90 (talk) 00:35, 26 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Pete says he only had a few weeks until release, but his escape would add fifty years to his sentence, which would mean he wouldn't get out until 1987, so 1937 seems like the year. Nelson died in a police shootout anyway; his character is kind of fictionalized. Bkatcher (talk) 21:14, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Soundtrack[edit]

The article says:

“… the soundtrack won a Grammy Award for Album of the Year in 2002, making it the only motion picture soundtrack to have ever received the accolade.”

Is this accurate? Didn’t Saturday Night Fever and The Bodyguard also both win Album of the Year? 75.147.166.213 (talk) 15:25, 12 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • You are correct. Go ahead and change it with a cite showing that all three albums won the award. Good catch! Sir Rhosis (talk) 15:40, 12 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

References to "The Odyssey"[edit]

I'm new to editing Wikipedia articles! And for one of my classes, it is required to edit one article! I love this film and have loved it for some time. I thought it would be a easy edit to add a few similarities between "O Brother" and Homer's "The Odyssey". For example, both the film and the poem have a Cyclops, or at least a Cyclops-like figure, both have Sirens, and both have the same basic storyline and ending. Any feedback would be appreciated! Thank you! Droopykitten612 (talk) 18:53, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sheriff Cooley devil[edit]

I think it is *strongly* implied that Sheriff Cooley is the incarnation of the devil, but I’m not sure if that should be stated in the cast section. Qbox673 (talk) 05:25, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:O_Brother,_Where_Art_Thou%3F&oldid=1204371925"