Talk:Debden, Epping Forest/Archive 1

Telephone code

Have removed the assertion that Debden's telephone code is '020 85' - this is innaccurate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.135.138.4 (talk • contribs) 03:48, 30 September 2005.

Moved from article

I moved the following comments from the article: MRSC 19:33, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

I wish to inform all website visitors that there is no such place as Debden in or near Loughton. Yes there is a London Underground Station in the north of Loughton named Debden but that I am afraid is it! There is no postal address or code for this made up address and Royal Mail has many times officially told people NOT to put the place name “Debden” on letters when posting to this area. This is why it is not shown on any maps, as simply there is no such place. Such an informative website should not have pages with made up information on. No one locally knows why and how the name Debden came about. The only thing people can come up with is when people from London moved to the area, they misunderstood that Debden was just a station name. If the station hadn’t changed its name these people may well of thought that the area was named Chigwell Lane. "Debden is not recognized on most roadmaps" This is because there is no such place! It's all Loughton, that's why the whole of Loughton North & South have the same address, post code & dialling code.

I don't think its been implied anywhere that Debden is the correct part of any postal address. In fact there is an infobox in the article which shows the post town is Loughton. Besides this, postal addresses have nothing to do with if a place exists or not. If they did then only about 1,500 towns in the UK would "exist". MRSC 19:52, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

I lived in Loughton many years ago, and remember problems where mail that was incorrectly addressed "Debden" ended up at the place whose real name is Debden. If Debden is the name of a part of Loughton, then it would be possible to define a boundary - I would say that that is impossible to do. "Debden" used to loosely refer to the housing estate constructed after WW2 by the London County Council to re-house people displaced from bomb damaged areas in London, but with the passage of time, demolition of areas of prefabs, construction of private housing etc, it would no longer be possible to define a complete boundary based on that criterion. Also "The Broadway" is often wrongly referred to as "Debden Broadway", and that has led to shops referring (where they also have a branch in Loughton High Road) to premises there as their "Debden branch". 82.29.215.250 14:19, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I've lived Loughton for most of my life and I can say with my experience "Debden" existed - according to local rumours it was amalgamated with Loughton, partly to avoid confusion and partly to do with that many from the area called "Debden" couldn't get jobs in Loughton because of Debden's completely undeserved bad-reputation (though it is relatively a more socially deprived area only in comparison to its richer neighbour Loughton); so they simply ended the name Debden and it formed part of Loughton. It does form a separate area at least for us old Loughtonians - I do believe it does deserve to have its on WikiPage because it does at least exist in the hearts and minds of Debdenites and Loughtonians. I love the place, it's like Loughton without the snobbiness. Madkaffir 20:20, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Debden exists, but I'd argue that that's largely by convention, much like 'Upper Leytonstone'. I have to work there occasionally and - the pie shop aside - the place is hell on earth... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Newartriot (talk • contribs) 02:38, 23 April 2007

Debden certainly does exist - the problem is that most of the people who moved to Debden really wanted to move to Loughton, an old established middle class area, but they couldn't afford to do so. That doesn't stop them from saying they live in 'Loughton', usually adding that Debden is just a postcode, etc. While Loughton Town Council is responsible for Debden, Loughtonians have never really accepted a council housing estate on their doorstep. They deal with this by either denying it exists altogether (saying it is all Loughton) or by talking about the 'Debden Estate' or 'North Loughton'. Debden folk, on the other hand, especially those who live around the Broadway, do not mix with those living near to Loughton High Road end, by choice. They feel that Loughton residents are snobs and say they have nothing much in common. That is just how it is and the terrible bus service between the two areas doesn't help very much. Essex County Council seems to have forgotten this part of the county. Most of the local societies, such as Loughton Historical, the WI and so on are in Loughton and Loughton Methodist Church and Lopping Hall are at the centre of Loughton's cultural life. Once Debden lost Loughton Hall to the college in 1991, it lost the centre of its community and there isn't much going on in Debden at all now other than Debden Day.

There are significant differences between the two communities which are important. The 2001 census shows that if you live in Debden you are less well educated, live in a home worth far less than in South Loughton, are more likely to be unemployed or employed in a non-professional less well paid job. Perhaps that is why Debden, which is mostly white, has 6 BNP District Councillors, whereas the Loughton Wards do not have any. For people who understand these things, that is another reason to keep the two communities separate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.143.20.63 (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

There is only one Debden in Essex and that is the village of Debden in Saffron Walden and this is a fact. However, as the LCC estate is a 'hell hole' mostly full of 'white trash' people who live in the mostly more expensive houses in the older part of Loughton like to differentiate themselves. It's a snobbish thing, otherwise Debden, Loughton has never and mostly likely will never exist! If you don't believe me just telephone Royal Mail, EFDC or ECC who will confirm that the village of Debden is the only Debden in Essex! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Spymo (talk • contribs) 21:26, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

I just thought i would add another point of view, my father grew up on the "Debden Estate" as he calls it, I have also heard it referred to as "North Loughton" however I feel this is partly due to the fact that property prices in the ex council estate have risen dramatically (a 3 bedroom terraced ex-council house is now worth well over 250 000 if it has been refurbished - my father owns such a property, the house he grew up in) and as such is now a far more desirable area. I grew up in Chelmsford central essex, and while I consider myself to be middle class I take great offence to certain above comments about "white trash" (an americanism!) the original inhabitants of the area never asked to live there, they were displaced after the war, so please don't refer to my family as "trash". The funny thing is that you say its (no apostrophe, not such a 'snob' are we?) a "snobbish thing" yet I am very well spoken for someone from Essex and have myself been called on numerous occasions "posh", but I am not bothered because I know my roots and I am clearly more educated than you despite being 19 years old and only having attended a comprehensive school, but with respect to "Debden" the population has changed considerably since the time when you must've last visited, it is now far more desirable for first time buyers - ex LLC properties are now worth in excess of 250,000! While there may still be "workking class" inhabitants (not "white trash" as you so eloquently put it) the area is changing rapidly and soon will resemble a middle greater London suburb. Angryafghan (talk) 03:27, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Page move

Some good work has been done here, Debden Estate, Loughton, Essex. Is correct and this article covers that. Somone (for unkown reasons) deleted this article and replaced it with 'Debden, Epping Forest' which is incorect as there isn't a potal address for 'Epping Forest'. I would ask before any edits are made on this article they arediscussed here first.(78.86.136.146 (talk) 13:57, 2 August 2009 (UTC))

Help:Moving a page gives some information about how to move pages as you tried to do at Debden, Epping Forest. Unfortunately you can't just copy and past the contents to a new page and then redirect. Further information is here: Wikipedia:How to fix cut-and-paste moves. What you need to do is continue to make editorial changes at Debden, Epping Forest and move the page using the move button. In some cases the move button will not work and there is a mechanism at WP:RM where the move can be completed. MRSC (talk) 14:00, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

In fact, Wikipedia:How to fix cut-and-paste moves allows for history merges, which can reunite both histories without having to re-copy everything again (see below). MLauba (talk) 20:22, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Stepping in following the CorenSearchBot false positive. The situation at present is that the version sitting at Debden Estate has evolved editorially while the one at Debden, Epping Forest hasn't budged (other than war about the redirect). In order to restore complete contributor history, I'm requesting a history merge of both articles into the one with the most recent content changes.

The history merge will restore the correct attribution as required by GFDL and CC-BY-SA licensing. Once this is done, if a move is desirable under the old title, please poste a request under Wikipedia:Requested moves so that the article with its entire history can be moved (this will temporarily delete the unwanted redirect to make room for the proper move, which is currently impossible).

I do please request from all parties that they interrupt the reverting until the history merge is completed, as this is required by WP:C, and then discuss further moves back and forth before enacting them and transforming the article histories of both titles into an unsalvageable state, which would infringe upon every past contributor's rights. Best, MLauba (talk) 20:19, 5 August 2009 (UTC)