Talk:Bella ciao

I was about to revert the And.... My Italian is hmmmm.... not serious never learned at school...; The translation I found on the web was worse than those I pasted.... There is also some work to do about uppercase. Ericd 22:38, 5 Sep 2003 (UTC)

E seppellire lassù in montagna = Bury me up in the mountain

Is this OK ? Ericd 22:41, 5 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't see this until now, so I placed the explanation to "and" in the summary. The traslation now is OK, I think. Some minor poetical twist is lost, but it's difficult to give the same effect in English.

"Bury me up in the moutain" is ok, actually it's

"And bury me up in the mountain"

:-) At18 22:53, 5 Sep 2003 (UTC)

I think the traslation of "Che mi sento di morir" ought to be "Because I feel to be willing to die" rather than "Because I feel death approaching".

The Italian text is ambiguous and could have both meanings, but "Because I feel to be willing to die" seems to make more sense.

the italian lyrics

hello folks, i'm a german but the lyrics of "bella ciao" are not written in the german article, so i read the english version. i think the lyrics are not right, so I corrected them.

Hi - I'm an Italian/English translator, have sung Bella Ciao more times than I can remember and it still brings tears to my eyes - so I've provided an "alternate translation" with singable rhythm - less literal word-for-word but closer to the meanings the song conveys... at least to those who sing it!

Lisa - Rome

Chorus in english translation

Every time I've heard this song in English (Chumbawamba and Leslie Fish versions mostly, I guess), the "O, Bella ciao, bella ciao..." lines are still sung in Italian, and it sounds fine that way, so I'd propose leaving it that way in the English translation in the article. Phr (talk) 04:45, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

copyright snip?

I came to the page and was surprised to see that it was severely truncated, supposedly because of copyright violations. Does anyone know the specifics? were it the lyrics? Some of the analysis about various versions of it from around the world seemed worthy and original. I don't think that was in violation. 75.175.15.126 (talk) 04:15, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Translations

Does it really make sense to put all the translations in this page? This is the English wiki. There should be the original version, the English version, possibly other languages when those versions have strong relevance, and basta. The other language translations should be on other language wikis. MattBan (talk) 07:26, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

"Ciao" -> "Goodbye" / "bye"

I have always thought correct "Ciao" translation for this song is "Hello", as in Italian language you can use "Ciao" either for "Hello" or for "Goodbye". --79.56.115.103 (talk) 11:14, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

As far as I understand, the song's protagonist says goodbye to his lover before he leaves to become a partisan (which he likely won't survive). 2A02:8109:13C0:2120:FC99:956B:F9C:4153 (talk) 10:47, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

Relationship of "Bella Ciao" to "Farewell of Slavianka" ?

I am struck by the similarity of the melody of Bella Ciao to that of "Farewll of Slawianka" by Vasily Agapkin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farewell_of_Slavianka

I was wondering if anyone knows more about this potential relationship between the two songs.

213.168.110.222 (talk) 21:00, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

External links modified

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How is that an anti-fascist song?

This song was revived by partisans in 1943, as an anti-GERMAN song. Fascist had held power in Italy for the previous two decades at that point, and this song never came out until Germans invaded. It's a nationalist song against a foreign invader, nothing else.

Good quality music was removed from the article

@Werldwayd removed this audio from the article with the comment "Not a significent version. Just promotional material". Please, could you explain

1. Why this is not a significant version and what version of music is significent from your point of view?
2. Why do you think that this is a "promotional material"? I have no relation to the singer!

P.S. If you think that the name of the singer should be removed from the title of the audio, then you can remove it, but why you remove this music with good quality? I don't understand.

P.P.S. I found this music at SoundCloud today. It was written 8 years ago. And I thought that it was very good addition for this article about this international song. --Andrew Krizhanovsky (talk) 15:31, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

I removed it as it is not significant and noteworthy. There are thousands of versions like the one you put. As for you not being related to it, I never inferred that. It's just that putting this particular version out of all versions makes it promotional as if this is a definite version to follow. You want significant versions, here are some suggestions: Original, Milva Yves Montand A Mondina version by Giovanna Daffini. If we opt for a more modern version: Manu Chao, Modena City Ramblers Red Army Choir. The actual version from the series La casa de papel here can be be used in the section "Renewed popularity with Money Heist". The one by Naestro featuring Maître Gims, Vitaa, Dadju & Slimane here with 107 million views wouldn't be appropriate either in main text, but may be attached to the section "Renewed popularity with Money Heist" as it topped the French SNEP chart. In comparison, the one proposed from Firas Khnaisser and Jawad El Hachem fades in any significance whatsoever. There are versions which are just as beautiful, but again insignicant and non-notable despite their artistic beauty. For example Nicola Cavallaro, Zaratustra Trio, Trigo!, Gipsy Casual, Kamil & Maelyss or remakes and adaptations like Rémy - a remake, Mike Singer - remake, Meder remix but I would still argue and remove if I found them just like the Khnaisser/El Hachem version. werldwayd (talk) 16:25, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for your explanation with great links! Yes, You provided very good examples of this music. But the version proposed from Firas Khnaisser has open license compatible with Wikipedia. "Significant versions" have closed licenses :( and we will not be able to use them for many years.

So, my thought is that this article is more complete with the version from Firas Khnaisser than without any song. I am not a musician, but I listen many times this song today and I still like it :).

I propose to write the name of the song without an artist name, in order to avoid any advertising and promotion, for example:

{{Listen|filename=Bella Ciao By Firas-Khnaisser.ogg|title=Bella Ciao|description=Bella Ciao (Partisan version)}}

Thank you, @Werldwayd, for your time and contribution! --Andrew Krizhanovsky (talk) 17:07, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

You have a point in giving example of an "open license" version like you did. So you may have a point. But I'd rather more research is done about a real authentic very old version. For example Giovanna Daffini recorded it in 1962 and Milva recorded hers in 1965, that's 57 and 54 years ago respectively! werldwayd (talk) 17:21, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

While I am not in favor of promoting any particular version, having a newer free version in the article instead of no version is preferable for the readers of the article interested in hearing it. If we can find an older recording that is public domain, we can always swap it out (if they were released in the US without a copyright notice for example, they'd be public domain now, see Template:PD-US-no notice). Regards SoWhy 19:04, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Partisan version - lyrics - PD

The lyrics of the "partisan" version are not PD. See here, here, here, and here. -- Andrew Krizhanovsky (talk) 08:42, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

P.S. See discussion at Commons. --Andrew Krizhanovsky (talk) 16:41, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

Who keeps denying the connection to Beethoven?

I've been trying to update the page to mention the relationship of the melody to the 3rd movement (Rondo) of Beethoven's Sonata Pathetique. There's no denying the melodies are very similar, and most people who study music would agree. Maybe there's some irony in the fact that the music originated in Germany, and was later used in the Italian resistance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.80.72.64 (talk) 19:46, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

We need WP:Reliable sources to link the connection. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 20:26, 13 August 2019 (UTC)Hi. Please provide WP:Reliable sources when you add content, as you did at Bella ciao. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 19:22, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

Please do not add or change content without citing a reliable source. Please review the guidelines at Wikipedia:Citing sources and take this opportunity to add references to the article. Thank you. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 20:26, 13 August 2019 (UTC) A mbox warning pn.svg Please stop adding unsourced content. This violates Wikipedia's policy on verifiability. If you continue to do so, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 20:26, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

i'm not sure why you're against the idea that the melody of Bella Ciao - the music itself - was composed, at least partially, by Beethoven and possibly even earlier. It's a very simple classical melody - chord structure, rhythm

First Sentence

Why the first sentence is highlighted in Yellow Saifullah.vguj (talk) 15:29, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Huh? Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 15:51, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

See: https://9to5google.com/2020/06/03/google-search-highlight-website-content/ Opencooper (talk) 19:19, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Interesting. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 20:23, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

International versions - vietnamese

More a note to self to find primary sources describing Generali’s ads in Vietnam all being rewritings of Bella Ciao (but to be about social stuff) --TheSeer (TalkˑContribs) 10:51, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

are you kidding me?

@Vaselineeeeeeee: I'm new here, and this is my first attempt at creating a talk page, but let me illustrate my problem. It's bad enough that the first result when you google Bella Ciao is the casa de papel remix, but now i'm seeing that not even the wikipedia article about it features the correct information? And I can't even attempt to correct it? What you need to understand is that this is a current, and significant song, and it's meaning isn't in the past. It's not a song about rice fields. you can include the other meaning, even though it's insignificant, but when somebody comes across this page they're going to leave with the impression that it's about "harsh working conditions". Wikipedia should be about furthering knowledge, at least that's why I'm trying to edit. I don't know, I probably did this wrong. Ligusterweg (talk) 17:50, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

@Ligusterweg: Thanks for bringing this to the talk page. You need WP:Reliable sources to makes changes to Wikipedia. The current sources indicate the song originated by women in the rice fields, then adapted for use during WWII in the resistance against the fascists. WP:SALORDER describes that older events should be described first. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 18:05, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

Tempo change

What percentage of the versions have a tempo change (from initially melancholic to eventually raucous) and what was the origin of that? Back ache (talk) 11:24, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

Iran protest

i don't have an appropriate English source at hand right now, but apparently the Persian version of the song has become associated with protest in Iran (fall/winter 2022), which might be worthwhile to mention in our article.--Kmhkmh (talk)

Corriere della Sera article

The Italian title La vera storia di “”Bella ciao”, che non venne mai cantata nella Resistenza is in the citation but shouldn't appear in the text as well rather than only its translation?

The article's author here and in the WP Italian article appears as Luigi Morrone which is immediately above the Corriere della Sera article's text but if Morrone is the author why is Dino Messina's name between the article's title and his? Mcljlm (talk) 00:59, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

Slanted point of view

"plenty of clandestine workers ready to compromise even further the already low wages just to get work"

This is a POV characterization of wage competition. All workers wanted work. 2A02:1210:2642:4A00:30DB:25CE:8AA7:2528 (talk) 06:31, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

Bella Ciao to me means "sweet surrender"..or "I am giving up"

Will someone agree? It's so obvious!!! 2607:FEA8:57DD:D400:2DC5:F750:13CD:BB82 (talk) 18:38, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

I heard in Italy on television in the Vienna concert on New Years Eve, the Russian Army Chorus singing Bella Ciao. It may have been 1977. It may have been another year, but I was there at that time watching TV. Everybody knew it. This was a partisan family, in San Remo during the war. San Remo is a musical town. I am rather certain it was known during the war there. But Italy was occupied by the nazifasti, remember? 12.90.121.46 (talk) 04:38, 27 August 2023 (UTC)