Talk:Horatius Cocles

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Request for info[edit]

Hello,

I am writing a story about Horatius Cocles please give me information about that time who was the King and what the Horatius post who is Horatius —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.42.2.28 (talk • contribs) 16:51, 2 November 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Pop culture[edit]

People are getting carried away with the popular culture references section. Star Wars, Dr. Who, Dune? Why not have left it at a handful of "classic" examples? Or does every Wiki list have to turn into an opportunity for geeks to add their own obscure favorites? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.229.137.173 (talk) 07:56, 10 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Completely agree, I'm going to trim the pop culture list heavily. Unless the popular culture reference is to Horatio Cocles himself, the reference doesn't belong here but in an article about Last stand, Heroism or Sacrifice#Self_sacrifice. Usrnme h8er (talk · contribs) 15:13, 5 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Time to do the article[edit]

There is no article here. What there is is either irrelevant or says nothing. It is time to do this article. I will not be using any of the items under trivia.Dave (talk) 02:24, 3 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Cuchulain etc[edit]

Cuchulain and Bayard have got nothing to do with Horatius. The editor seems to be trying to define a genre of one or a few standing off many. You can't do that on your own, in my opinion. You need for someone else to have done it, and then you bring in a reference to that person. Otherwise it is original research. There must be offhand a great many such characters in the legends and history of the world. For example, there is Sampson with the jawbone of an ass. The world wars have so many medalled heros who stood off a multitude that a single book wouldn't begin to cover it. Any well-armed and experienced person in a defensible position can make such a splash in history; Horatius is nothing unbelievable nor do we have to resort to myth to find others like him. So, this is an article about Horatius. Unless he is involved in some way or a genre has been defined including him in particular all the many other defenders do not belong here. The "See also" was not the right place for such an exposition anyway. For now this knocks out the "See also" but I am not done yet. I'm sure something will turn up that fits it.Dave (talk) 19:17, 7 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Missiles at the Swimmer[edit]

One of the references expressed skepticism that a man could swim through water under a hail of missiles and survive. While I don't know about spears and arrows, bullets are easily stopped by water as Mythbusters demonstrated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.168.166.187 (talk) 21:09, 15 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The short answer is that the historians, and probably anybody who had been there to watch it, thought it was amazing. Even if science could show how it was achieved, that doesn't make it less noteworthy.

The long answer is that what applies to bullets, which indeed lose much of their killing force when fired through even a few feet of water, may not apply to spears or arrows, which, while they start with much less velocity than a bullet, also have much greater mass, and thus momentum. Moreover, even if the water could stop their progress (which would probably happen if it were deep enough), nothing in the accounts says that Horatius swam any great distance under the water. They just say that he swam to the river bank, with, according to Dionysius, some difficulty due to the eddies and currents that resulted from the wreckage of the bridge, and he swam without losing his arms. So in all probability he would have done his best to stay on the surface to avoid drowning. In any case he was swimming to the river bank, not hiding in the deepest part of the river. So he would still have been a target for archers or javelin-throwers.

I should add, however, that as none of this is established fact, or even speculated upon by the ancient authors, it doesn't really belong in the article itself. I just thought I might be able to answer the question. P Aculeius (talk) 15:48, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Does this article need trimming?[edit]

Looking at this article, I think that much of the material, which seems to be based mainly on Plutarch's life of Poplicola, is not directly relevant to Publius Horatius Cocles. It's all perfectly good material, such as the plot of the Aquilii, Vitellii, and Brutus' sons; or Tarquin's first assault on the Republican forces; but I think it belongs in other articles, not in the biography of Horatius.

Horatius is known for one deed and one deed only; his stand on the wooden bridge over the Tiber. Neither Livy, nor Dionysius, nor Plutarch, the primary sources for the legend, say that he was an officer, and not a common soldier. None of them indicate that he played any role in the events leading up to the battle, or after it. I think that the body of the article should concern only the material directly related to Horatius, and that the introductory section should be much briefer, with the material there treated in the body of the article instead of in the introduction. P Aculeius (talk) 15:30, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I completely agree. Trimming now. ;) --Urg writer (talk) 10:56, 15 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The phrase[edit]

With regard to the article's last sentence: The phrase 'Romans on the Bridge' is used to refer to a valiant defence against impossible odds. I have never heard this before, but I have heard "Horatius at the Bridge" used similarly in many places. However, I can't provide a citation proving this. Should I amend it? 2.25.131.173 (talk) 14:53, 2 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

To be honest, I can't remember ever hearing anyone mention "Romans on the bridge," although I have heard the phrase, "Horatius at the bridge." I can certainly see how people who can't remember who the defenders were might make such a change, along the lines of "a wise man once said," when you can't remember who the speaker or author was (or whether he was actually wise). But I don't believe it's idiomatic. If there isn't any significant literary use, I'd regard it as a variation and change the article text to "Horatius at the bridge" (small "b"). But I'd definitely try Googling the phrase in both forms and see what turns up. P Aculeius (talk) 04:10, 3 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]