Talk:Sambo (racial term)

Male or Female

A book of mine makes references to sambos and sallies. I get the feeling sambo might be a term to describe black males while sallies might describe black females. Thoughts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.92.165.134 (talk) 01:57, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Slur

The book is said to have been published in 1898. The American Civil War ended in 1865. Thus, either the book was not the origin of this slur, or the slur did not originate immediately after the civil war. Thus the reason for the previous edit. 10:56, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

• The book is clearly not the origin of the slur. The British National Archives site on Black History (in the UK) has a clear reference to the term from the previous century: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/pathways/blackhistory/intro/intro.htm

Anon 01:10, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Its not a racial slur in Central America, that is for sure. remeber we are an international encyclopedia not an American or British one, SqueakBox 19:59, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Wasn't there a pancake restaurant in the U.S. called Sambo's? The logo (sign, menu, decor) even dipicted a "black faced" cartoon character. I used to see these restaurants on the U.S. West Coast.

Uncle

I am removing the reference to "Uncle" as a racial pejorative. Not for factuality - it's true that "Uncle" exists in a pejorative sense, and (I'll assume) it does coincide with the word Zambo in Foula and Spanish. The problem is that it implies a relationship that doesn't have adequate support. Are we saying that "Uncle" picked up the pejorative connotation from "Zambo" or was it the other way around? It seems the connection has been repeated often enough that it's taken at face value. Other than those which repeat the passing mention of the coincidence, is there any documentation of the relationship? I've looked, and I can't find any. Thus, unless someone can show some, this section should be left out. The facts are damning enough without adding unsupported implications. 10:56, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

---

But what does it mean?

I found this page helpful, but it would be better if someone added more on exactly what the word means. I mean, it's racist, but is it just an offensive synonym for "black"? Are there more connotations than that? I ask because I came across this page because I was trying to figure out this lyric by a rapper named Mr. Lif, "My boss walks by, he's looking just like an asshole / Smiling 'cause he jerks niggers for minimum cash flow / He's cool in my face but I swear, I heard him laugh though / Tickled by the fact that I'm the modern-day Sambo" ("Live from the Plantation", I Phantom). Zach (wv) (t) 03:23, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

In Geography textbooks in Bulgaria it is written that people of mixed african and amerindian decent are called "sambo". I have no idea where this comes from, but it could be a mistake repeated many times in school literature since most textbooks cut and paste from older ones.

Apparently, that is the Carribean meaning, but it's still not polite there either. I'm glad I wasn't educated with Bulgarian text books after hearing that! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.21.76.80 (talk) 19:41, 4 February 2007 (UTC).

KMDG 08:53, 21 May 2007 (UTC)My Irish collegues tell me the term is used in Ireland as slang for sandwichKMDG 08:53, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Japanese manga/anime depictions

In Japan, the "Sambo" depiction of people of African ancestry is still used in newspaper cartoons, manga, and anime. In the popular manga and anime Dragonball Z, the character known as "Mr. Popo" is an overweight black genie with absurdly pouty red lips.

It says "still used" but Dragon Ball and its characters are 22 years old, are there any more recent examples?

• • Mr. Popo and that Jinx creature from Pokemon are not good examples of Sambo used in Japan as neither are human characters. Perhaps a better example should be used from Japanese media. If I find one I will post it here. Maphisto86 00:50, June 18 2006 (UTC)

• • • Not "human", but are still modeled on the golliwog/sambo archetype and was/is offensive to black people as there was controversy raised about both characters in the U.S. . Nevertheless, I added a link to a PSA for Earthquake survival in Tokyo (made in 2005) and posted the cover art. As offensive as the cover is, the inside is worse, and I invite you to peruse the .pdf link. Neoyamaneko

Jinx was only controversial because Americans don't have the Kogal subculture (nor is it particularly widely known about in the U.S.), and hence automatically assumed it was an imitation of blackface. Anybody remotely familiar with urban Japanese youth culture would instantly recognize Jinx as a rather obvious visual reference to a particular sub-group of kogals, who try to maintain a very dark tan alongside heavy makeup and sometimes wild hair colors as part of their fashion "look". Try reading Gals! (a manga about kogals) sometime, you'll see what I mean. I cannot comment on Mr.Popo, though - he does not appear to be a kogal reference (heck, I don't even know if the kogal subculture existed then), but I'm also not a DBZ fan and don't know the history of the character or anything. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.21.76.80 (talk) 19:50, 4 February 2007 (UTC).

• • • • I don't think that this is the appropriate article for the caricature, and that it should be merged into the blackface article. 惑乱 分からん 15:29, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

African American?

I just changed this in the first paragraph to 'Black person' (though I know that's a bit clumsy - Perhaps someone could word it better). It's not just used for African Americans (unfortunately). I just saw it in an old British film referring to a black person, and wanted to check on Wikipedia if it had always been a slur or if it had had some real meaning in the past. I think it was a very common slur in the early/middle 20th century.

I agree with you. Unfortunately, someone has changed it back to "African American". I have a hard time believing anyone who actually slings this term around is concerned with what nation their target has citizenship with.

I just expanded it a bit -- in hopes of making it acceptable to all... BCorr|Брайен 16:51, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I believe in the UK, "black person" means someone of sub-Saharan African ancestory OR someone of Southeast Asian ancestory. In the US, it only means the former, and I don't believe the term sambo is commonly, if ever applied to someone of SE Asian ancestory in the US. 98.221.133.96 (talk) 12:09, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Title

I have removed the POV title as sambo ios certainly anything but a racial slur where I live. If you can source it is a racial slur that is fine but poving in the title is absolutely not on in wikipedia. sdad people who think a mixture of black and indian is a racial slur, that labelling is what strikes me as the racial slur, SqueakBox 19:54, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

That's all well and good for your little neck of the woods (where ever that may be) but to the vast majority of the English speaking world, it's a racial slur. 68.166.65.52 08:58, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

That as may be, however Wikipedia aims for factual correctness insofar as possible - there seems to be disagreement on the fact that Sambo is a racial term and that should be reflected with, at the very least, a neutral title. 172.141.203.70 22:19, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Merge suggestion

Somebody suggested that the section on Little Black Sambo be merged with the full article Little Black Sambo. I'm not sure why anyone would want to do that since it is relevant and gives a context to the word Sambo. I'm removing the suggested merge and replacing it with a main article link. Same goes for the suggested merge with the article BlackfaceAppleCyder 23:57, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Mr Popo photo.jpg

Image:Mr Popo photo.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 14:43, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Tokyogolliwog.jpg

Image:Tokyogolliwog.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 07:13, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

How much is this still used as a racial term?

What with a lot of focus being on the use of the N-word, one hardly ever hears the term "sambo" in an offensive sense. Being called Sam, I grew up with the nickname Sambo and was only made aware of its racial connotations after having had the nickname for a long while. I still get called it every now and again (in church last week for example) and I'm not too sure that many people know about its origins. Is there any research into its current use (at least in the UK, where I am)? --El Pollo Diablo (Talk) 14:18, 29 January 2008 (UTC) I agree - I'm a 'Samuel' who grew up in the 1970s and 80s being called Sambo and only became aware of any racist connotations after several years. Rather than being a racist term in itself, I believe that it's more a male forename that is used to typify a cultural identity and in this regard has similarities with 'Mick' or 'Paddy' which have similar connotations in Protestant and Catholic Irish Communities, respectively. As such I think too much emphasis is placed on it being a racial slur in this article, and not enough on it's use as a name. I think this is qualified by the fact that the book mentioned refers to 'Little Black Sambo' and the racist song refers to Sambo as, "Sambo was a Lazy Coon..." illustrating that neither the "Little Black..." or the "Coon" would be necessary if the word "Sambo" automatically carried the racial implication. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.22.66.180 (talk) 10:49, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

As someone from the UK myself and being called Sam, my story is almost identical to yours - my Grandad misspoke many words over the years (mainly to make me laugh and be funny, such as “Par Cark” switching the letters around, “Sambo Rambo Rambo”, “Suzie Roozy Roozy”. There was no malice intended and I didn’t know that the term Sambo could be used in an offensive way until a manager told me to remove it from my name badge back when I was a teenager/early 20’s. Needless to say I was confused, appalled at the manager for attributing it to a racial connotation and asking me to change it because it MAY offend someone, I was offended at this point.

People need to move on from these things, stop talking about them so they lose their power, of which the term “Sambo” as a racial slur never really had power but definitely doesn’t now. Move on folks! TheSamboRambo (talk) 09:26, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

Governor Palin's attributed comment

Sourced and stiking to the "Imagery" section, doesn't say that she actuallt said it but that it is *attributed* to her : what's the problem ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.242.232.81 (talk) 22:47, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

The sources are not reliable and the whole thing falls under WP:BLP. We cannot add that into this article as it is guilt by association. This is inflammatory and as such cannot be included in this article. Please discuss it over at Talk:Sarah Palin if you think it should be included there, but let me make it clear, it won't be included over there either. It simply is not relevant to this term, nor is it reliably sourced. Do not re-add it or it will be deleted and you will be blocked. Woody (talk) 22:50, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Hey, why discuss it if you already threat me with blocking ?

The "inflammatory" would be to state Gov. Palin said so while here it is clearly mentioned that it is only attributed (see last vesion)

Writting this in the general article on Gov. Palin may be unfair as it is only a single testimony mentioned in a liberal media. Right. But on this page to the contrary, it gives the reader a broader description of how this word can be used today.

So please calm down and change my wording if you wish but sorry, you did not explain clearly why this reference has no place in this article.

And well block me if it makes you feel better, I'll try to challenge the decision as reading your contributions about Gov. Palin shows you're not particularly calm with the topic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.242.232.81 (talk) 23:09, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Per Wikipedia's policy on living persons, we can't include potentially defamatory information that's this poorly sourced, even using weasel words like 'attributed'. -- Vary | Talk 23:17, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your comment, Vary. The article is not about a living person but about an expression. If you want to apply the rule you mention to articles about insulting words, then you have to delete half of the sections about how these words are used today as most of these attributions are subject of controversies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.242.232.81 (talk) 23:26, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

The issue is that it's what we call a coatrack. I personally am of the opinion that there may well be a place for that comment in Wikipedia. But that place would be in the Sarah Palin article, or a child article of it. To include it in this article would be including mention of each time a famous person has been in trouble for using the word Nigger in said article. If it's their controversy, it should be in their article. If there is controversy about someone famous attending a strip club or using the services of a prostitute, then it should be in their articles or sub articles, rather than having all their controversies scattered all over the encyclopedia, you know? Does that help explain why this article isn't the right place for it? 88.104.197.200 (talk) 03:14, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

The very fact that you are discussing Palin in relation to a racial slur is inflamatory, ESPECIALLY since this slander is not even based in fact. As stated earlier, even if say, Obama, "allegedly" said he wanted to "kill the bimbo", it doesn't mean you have to put the reference in an article on "kill", "the", "bimbo", "Hillary Clinton", and "Sarah Palin" (since he could be talking about either). Keep that sort of stuff to the nutroots sites please and out of wikipedia. (Mundunugu (talk) 20:47, 8 September 2008 (UTC))

Incoherent

The article is incoherent in that it separately suggests 3 different origins as the sole source of the term: zambo (africa via modification in spanish, sambo's grave (a name, presumably directly from africa), and Shambhu (India). Although one editor has acknowledged that separate sources have probably arrived at the same word, this possibility is ignored and contradicted in most of the article. I probably haven't explained the problem too well, but read the article through and you will see how messy it is. There are other similar problems that I can't even be bothered to go into. Would some rewriting be acceptable? Melaena (talk) 16:31, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Sometimes etymology is unclear. That's life. Although I didn't read "sambo's grave" as bearing on the etymology of "sambo". --Michael C. Price ^talk 16:37, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

It's not the unclear etymology that the problem - it's the fact that half of the article fails to acknowledge the fact. Have you read the article yet?:

"The word "sambo" probably came into English from the Latin American Spanish word zambo, which in turn may have come from one of three African language sources."

"The origins of the word "Sambo" stem from an occurrence believed to be at the height of the British Empire" (referring to Sambo's Grave)

"Although the term sambo is considered pejorative to African Americans and American Indians its likely origin is unrelated to them and more related to dark skinned but not as curly haired people of Southern India."

These statements shouldn't exist in the same article as one another. Melaena (talk) 18:27, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Solved 1/2 the problem by rewriting Sambo's grave.--Michael C. Price ^talk 18:40, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

African American Stereotype

This article HAS TO address the African American Stereotype of Sambo. The Stereotypes of African Americans page links this page, but the stereotype ans SIGNIFICANCE is not discussed here. See the page mentioned above (basically a 'happy slave') and yes I realize this needs to be expanded and reworded. It is one of the better known stereotypes (at least in the US) so I feel that it needs to be at least mentioned. Cunnirya000 (talk) 00:59, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

Etymology and usage edit

This doesn't seem appropriate:

"The name does not seem to have acquired the intentional, open derogatory connotation until the first half of the 20th century."

After the previous paragraph explained the origin of the word as "monkey" or "bow-legged". Sounds derogatory to me.

75.71.177.72 (talk) 16:59, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

Etymology II

"The Royal Spanish Academy gives the origin from a Latin word, possibly the adjective valgus"

How on earth is the word "sambo" supposed to be derived from "valgus"? With only one letter in common, it seems that that would require some explaining. --217.239.2.184 (talk) 21:24, 29 August 2019 (UTC)