Talk:Mikhail Kalinin

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Old talk[edit]

Should this be redirected to Mikhail I. Kalinin? -- Schewek 21:14, 9 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Cities[edit]

It would be interesting to know why Tver reverted to its historic name after the collapse of the Soviet Union but Kaliningrad did not. Sca (talk) 20:42, 10 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Presumably because Kaliningrad's previous name was Konigsberg, a relic of the era when the area was German-speaking. At the end of World War II the German-speaking people in East Prussia evacuated westward so as to avoid the Russians. 69.121.6.97 (talk) 16:45, 26 January 2009 (UTC)captcrisis[reply]

"Evacuated" is a euphamism for what happened to the German population of what is now the Kaliningrad Oblast.
In any case, one wonders why Kalinin apparently still merits the recognition implied by Kaliningrad continuing to be so named, when Leningrad has gone back to being St. Petersburg. Why couldn't they call it Кёнигсберг?
Sca (talk) 20:49, 23 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]


I guess because Koningsberg isnt a Russian name. Kaliningrad isnt connected to the rest of Russia and Russia wouldn't want anyone to think this territory was an integral part of Russia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.96.14.189 (talk) 10:59, 7 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently, Poland has chosen to rename Kaliningrad to "Krolewiec." Given the non-agression pact with Nazi Germany, the subsequent attack and invasion of Poland by the Soviets, the failure to support the Polish uprising against the Nazis, and the massacre of Polish officers - all signed off by Kalinin in his role as titular head of government in the Soviet Union (not 100% sure about this), along with the resurgent imperialism under Putin, it may be unsurprising that the Poles have taken this step. Perhaps this page should be updated to reflect the new name of Kaliningrad in Poland. Msft watch (talk) 15:00, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Law of Spikelets[edit]

Why shold be empatised that he signed the Law of Spikelets? He in fact signed any all-union law. This was his job. And laws were adopred by the supreme council and Kalinin had no veto power, so his signature worth nothing.--Dojarca (talk) 11:13, 13 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Stalin, who under the pretext of protecting him had his apartment always watched by NKVD officers[edit]

Was it a special trick by Stalin or was it a duty of NKVD to guard the residence of a head of state? This article presents it as a political trick with intention to control and/or spy Kalinin but I know no country where residencies of state officials are not guarded. In a case if Stalin had no intention to spy Kalinin would his residence left unguarded?--MathFacts (talk) 03:16, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

According to Prof. Robert W. Thurston in Life and Terror in Stalin's Russia (p. 3.): "Besides running the labor camps, the NKVD had various other functions and divisions: it operated the fire departments across the USSR; ran the militia; kept track of ordinary civil statistics in registry offices; guarded the borders and maintained internal security troops, which were uniformed; had charge of discipline and crime in the transportation network; and handled state security. The NKVD also supervised geodesic and cartographic work, forestry, and measuring devices." (Emphasis added) So yes, it does seem like guarding the head of state sounds like something routine for the NKVD. Not to mention that this was during the Great Terror, so extra security would make sense. Does Medvedev actually have a source for this? Or is he just presuming that Stalin intimidated Kalinin just 'cause. --Mrdie (talk) 01:15, 8 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, NKVD in those times was not something like special or secret service, it among other things included general civil police, border guards and even fire department. The article reads like NKVD was a kind of secret spy office subordinated personally to Stalin. This does not exclude possibility that Stalin indeed spyed for Kalinin but this does not directly follow from the fact that Kalinin's residence was guarded.--MathFacts (talk) 05:41, 8 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

ANY WORD ABOUT GENOCIDE[edit]

Polish soldiers an civilians in Katyn and other places in Soviet Russia by Kalinin whos decided too about it after september 17-th 1939 > German & Soviet aggression to Poland. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.51.115.66 (talk) 21:24, 17 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Request for Comments[edit]

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Please help us determine consensus on this issue. --Guy Macon (talk) 04:12, 23 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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genocide[edit]

very interesting summary where there is no word about he is genocide maker. it is like you wrote about Hitler that he is German politician without mention Holocaust which is not a case. it is not enough to put it somewhere in text. Taking part in genocide as decisive person is most important part of life of all soviet politicians active from 1917 to minimum 1943. Kalinin was by the way direct genocidist by taking part and signing of Katyn massacre directive. Wikipedia has to be neutral so all genocide makers has to be treated same way. Jarek19800 (talk) 06:15, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If you have some specific addition to the article with verified sources to propose on this aspect, showing involvement by Kalinin in particular ways rather than simply because he was a member of the Soviet government, then you should set out what that is.Sbishop (talk) 08:01, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Re: the Katyn massacre[edit]

It should only be mentioned in the lead if he held sole or majority responsibility for the massacre, which no supporting source has been introduced for - most reliable sources attribute said responsibility to Stalin and Beria, and similarly, most RSes portray Kalinin as a figurehead with no real political power. As a result, it's mentioned and sourced later in the body that he co-signed the order alongside five others, which sources (including the one added) do support. Again, we do not engage in WP:OR here. The Kip 22:03, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Noting that WP:DUE also covers this - the difference with Himmler and other Nazis, as you’ve invoked, is that reliable sources in those articles describe that they were fundamentally involved in planning and executing the Holocaust and other Nazi-perpetrated massacres. The sources in this article (including the one you have introduced) list Kalinin as a signatory on the order, but none thus far claim that he held major responsibility for it as you’re asserting; again, most RSes attribute direct responsibility to Stalin and/or Beria. The Kip 01:43, 9 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have notified WikiProject Biography and WikiProject Socialism, two of the Wikiprojects covering this article, of this discussion in order to seek further input. I opted not to notify WikiProject Soviet Union as the project's talk page seems to indicate there's not much activity there. The Kip 02:22, 9 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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