Talk:Thurso

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untitled[edit]

I come from Thurso - and this is completely correct ^_^ Cruisers (Neds + Car = Driving in a circle for up to 5 hours. Pretty Pointless) Though the Drugs comment was unneccesary, its only about a 0.5% minority that do anything worse than the occasional Joint, lol - and even then, the 'stoners' don't really integrate - most of us spend our quite lives just chilling *nodnod* ^_^

Yeah, it's not very encylopedic, but... who cares? I suppose it's totally not NPOV...

Kirk[edit]

I note the article's use of the word kirk, wondering whether this is English. Is it Scots? Is its use appropriate in the English language version of Wikipedia? Laurel Bush 09:58, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC).

As the only 'kirk' I can see is part of a proper name, I can't see that there's any grounds for altering it. The Oxford English Dictionary also lists 'kirk', noting it to be the Northern English and Scots form of the word 'church'. Furthermore, it's a word in widespread use in Scotland today, and I don't think that there's any doubt that we speak English nowadays... presumably there's not a blanket objection to all words used in English drawn from another language e.g. French (café)? Killiedaft 21:42, 12 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Kirk comes from the Old Norse word kirkja, which means "church". It is not in itself a Norse word, it is merely an every day word in common useage in Scotland which happens to have Old Norse etymology. In that respect, it is far from unique and I would say that it's use in the English language version of Wikipedia is entirely appropriate. Lianachan 13:37, 7 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

... Plus, it's not used in a general church context, but to refer to a specific building known as "Old St Peter's Kirk". Should 'old' be in the image captions ? Or is there no "New St Peter's" ? BTW, has surfing died - seems surprising it's referred to in the past tense ! Also "from June 2007" suggests the Smyril is a new service - I remember it from about 1979 ? --195.137.93.171 (talk) 18:47, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Gaelic name[edit]

My Gaelic is poor, but Inbhir Theòrsa seems to imply that the town is named after the river, and not vice versa. Is this a good interpretation of the name? If so, is the implication true: does anyone really know? Laurel Bush 13:13, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC).

The Theòrsa part of that is of Old Norse etymology, being a Gaelicised version of the name Thurso. It itself comes from Thórsá, meaning "Thor's River" (the á part means "river"). Lianachan 13:44, 7 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Theòrsa is a transliteration of Thórsá? River may be á in Old Norse but I believe nontheless there is some dispute about whether Thórsá or Thurso actually means Thor's River: naming rivers for gods seems to have been, at best, very uncommon amongst the Norse. Laurel Bush 16:29, 7 October 2005 (UTC).[reply]

Well, whether the river is named afer Thor or not - the word Thórsá describes the river, which in turn gives the town it's name. I'm not sure how valid the Gaelic name Inbhir Theòrsa actually is, historically - is it a relatively modern construct? There's not much in the way of old Gaelic placename etymology in Caithness. Anyway, it's clearly describing an area at the mouth of a river and it seems the town is named for the river once again. I'm not disagreeing with you - you said "that the town is named after the river" and I don't think that, at least, is disputed. Lianachan

That the town is named for the river is precisely what I believe to be disputed by some etymologists, who suggest the river might be named for the town. Would be useful to have some knowledge of the oldest surviving written uses of Thórsá, Theòrsa and Thurso. Likewise for any other spellings that may have existed. You suggest Inbhir Theòrsa may be a modern construct, and I suspect so myself. And I am not sure Thórsá is not a presumed spelling. Laurel Bush 09:17, 8 October 2005 (UTC).[reply]

Not meaning to drag this up again, but Watson's suggested toponomy is an agreement with MacBain's suggestion of Thjórsá, meaning Bull's Water. I haven't found any pre-Norse names for the river, or settlement, although I've found an intriguing pre-Norse name for nearby Holborn Head (Tarvodunon, meaning Bull Fort). Lianachan 01:21, 17 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

OK. Perhaps the footnote in the article needs tweaking. It still seems to be the case, however, that the English name is not an Anglicised form of a Gaelic name and the Gaelic (probably a very recent construct) is not a direct translation of the English. Nontheless there is strong support for the idea that the meaning of the Gaelic construct reflects to some degree the meaning of a Norse original. Laurel Bush 10:28, 18 March 2006 (UTC).[reply]

Absolutely. If the Norse named the river after a Bull, and there had been a Bull Fort name in the immediate vicinity about a millenia earlier, it's definately possible that although the modern name comes from the Norse one, it itself is a translation of an earlier one. Perhaps some local small group had a Bull as a totem and the area was named after them? I don't know. But I do know people who're better qualified than me to speculate, so I'll email them and keep you posted. *edited afterthought - there is a fort right at the end of Holborn Head, too. Lianachan 11:19, 18 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have never in my life heard anyone use the term "Inbhir Theòrsa." (I'm from Thurso, by the way.) I had not even heard of the term until Scotrail and Highland Region council started Gaelicificating all their signs a few years back. Gaelic has never been spoken in Thurso, so why is there the need to put the made-up-Gaelificated name that no-one has ever used in the first line????? It's hardly important. --Angstriddenyouth (talk) 11:02, 17 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I completely agree. Nevertheless, the name is used - even if only on the "Thurso" signs as you enter the town, and wherever else the Gaelic mafia have slipped it in. Lianachan (talk) 20:04, 18 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Gaelic was spoken in Thurso just around three hundred years ago, a bit of research into Gaelic in Caithness will tell you Thurso spoke it longer than Wick did (Wick having both Gaelic and English around 1700). Thurso was mainly populated by monoglot Gaels at this time, not English speakers. Also, if the original Norse name was Thjórsá, the Gaelic name Inbhir Theòrsa preserves that sound far better than English ("in-yir hyOr-sa"). (One might even ask why we bother to put a made-up-Anglicised name that, up until fairly recently, no-one had ever used! I realise Thurso is English-speaking now, in case anyone was tempted to argue against that little joke.) It is therefore perfectly valid to have the Gaelic name in the first sentence, as well as on the "Welcome" (or "Fàilte") signs. scotsmanRS 18:07, 12 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

If Gàidhlig had never been spoken in Thurso, there would have been no deliberate policy of eradication through education policies. The Anglicisation was an expensive and violent policy by English language bigots. Seamusalba (talk) 23:49, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Town of the Year?[edit]

Well, I live in Thurso, and I have never heard of this award being given to the town. Anyone have any sources?Sierra 1 16:29, 19 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I guess the reference is to a vote taken by a drinking club in a Thurso pub. Probably not in a Wick pub. Laurel Bush 13:51, 20 January 2006 (UTC).[reply]

Heh ^_^Sierra 1 17:38, 20 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The name of the town.[edit]

As someone already stated the name of the town comes from being Thor's River, and it has nothing to do with a Bull. The name of the town was most likely originally Thorso and over years has been corrupted by dialect, most people in Caithness can sound like they are saying Thirsa when they say it. I was born and raised in Thurso and have always been interested in my towns past and I have always been told by numerous sources that the Town is named after the river and it was Thor's River. This doesn't necessarily imply it was named after the God, thor was a common christian name and it could have been named after the man who discovered it. The name is similar to that of the Norwegian town of Tromso, and not unlike Thorshaven. What I am trying to say is whoever wrote the old norse explanation is talking Bull ;-)

Actually, the "Thor's River" etymology is the one that's bull, although it is popular. The town is indeed named after the river, though. The names of rivers are just about the oldest existing names there are, predating the Norse by millenia, so the thought of the river being named after a discoverer called Thor doesn't fit. Most of them are named after known Celtic gods (with similar names found on the continent), while others are named after their characteristics. More, of course, could be nameed after gods we just don't know about. Another bull reference in the immediate vicinity is the ancient "Fort of the bull" on Holborn Head - see my thoughts about that above. Compare with the names of rivers like Thjórsá in Iceland, or check with the Scottish Placenames Society, or with any of the books on Scottish place names. Lianachan 20:53, 11 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Caithness.org[edit]

I am not sure the caithness.org link in the info box is really appropriate. The website represents itself as a "community website", but it seems to be very much a private initiative on the part of a particular Highland councillor, who is expected to be standing for re-election in May's elections. Laurel Bush 18:02, 3 April 2007 (UTC).[reply]

No response? Shall I remove the link? Laurel Bush 09:25, 5 April 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Link now removed. Laurel Bush 10:38, 10 April 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Broken link[edit]

May be down just now - if still gone days later, please delete ! No sign in google etc.--195.137.93.171 (talk) 18:36, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Old Norse.[edit]

The Old Norse word for Bull is "gidungr." The Old Norse word for water is "logr." How you are supposed to put this together to get "Thurso" I don't know.

The Old Norse name for Thor with an accented "a" (meaning river) on the end is "Thorsa." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.33.239.76 (talk) 21:47, 22 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]


That is mistaking the specific element of the name. The Old Norse origin of "Thurso" is "Þjórsá" (bull river), not "Þórsá" (Thor’s River), as per the source provided (Watson, although many others could also be given). There is an identically named river in Iceland, and the Norse didn't generally name rivers after their gods either. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.143.177.134 (talk) 08:13, 25 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Inconsistencies[edit]

Hi there, I've been reading through the Thurso and Scrabster articles (with regards to the A9) and it reads to me like there are some inconsistencies. Scrabster and Thurso are, I believe, different settlements and the A9 terminates at Scrabster Harbour. This article seems to imply in some sections that Scrabster is part of Thurso and in other parts (and in the Scrabster article) that it's not.... so there needs to be a decision made and the three articles edited as need be :) Twirliegirly (talk) 16:20, 5 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Unneeded Information?[edit]

I have been reading through the article and I Am seeing many unreferenced, pieces of information whose fatal importance is very questionable. Currently I have placed tags on the article but if the situation does not improve I Am considering trying to rid the article of statements which are unnecessary Danielj2705 (talk) 20:33, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Overall[edit]

A few things that could do with an edit plus overall I find it very short and lacking. Plus: A nice picture of the town would be a good idea.

Why is this included ? Police Scottish Fire Scottish Ambulance Scottish

Etymology Mostly inaccurate information not even sure why this section is included in the first place. Seems to be inspired by the Gaelic Mafia in all Scottish towns wiki entries.

History Way to short. Why is the MOD included ? I am sure a lot more important things have happened in Thurso over it,s history.

Governance Should be included in history.

Geography. Way to short. Topography could be included as could some information about the neighbourhoods the town is divided into.

Climate A mess, suddenly jumps to distances to other places !!

Facilities Could be expanded particular more information on the schools.

The rest seems fine.

80.57.154.45 (talk) 10:07, 25 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Rewrite[edit]

Dr. Blofeld has suggested a rewrite of the article and had started by removing the history, governance, coat of arms, geography, climate, location, facilities, economy, transport, language and sport sections.

I'm willing to support this, but a rewrite is a big task so we would appreciate any help that editors can offer in adding in good, factual, relevant content. Drchriswilliams (talk) 11:30, 14 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It is clear that Dr. Blofeld has been very busy rewriting this page today- a real step-change of improvement in quality. Many Thanks. Drchriswilliams (talk) 16:47, 14 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, didn't take too long. I've made some additions but there doesn't seem to be detailed history sources online as I'd expected. I was expecting an article in British history line which I've not located yet. It would be good to get this up to GA status I think, although not as famous as John o groats.♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:57, 14 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

GA toolbox
Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Thurso/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: West Virginian (talk · contribs) 18:49, 22 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Dr. Blofeld, I will engage in a thorough and comprehensive review and re-review of this article within the next 48 hours. Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns in the meantime. Thanks! -- West Virginian (talk) 18:49, 22 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

Dr. Blofeld, I've completed a thorough and comprehensive review and re-review of this article, as promised, and I assess that it definitely exceeds the criteria for good article status. I do, however, have some comments and suggestions that should be addressed prior to its passage to Good Article status. Congratulations on a job well done! -- West Virginian (talk) 21:36, 22 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose, no copyvios, spelling and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:
  6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
  7. Overall:
    Pass/Fail:

Lede

  • Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section, the lede of this article adequately defines Thurso, establishes Thurso's necessary context, and explains why Thurso is otherwise notable.
  • The info box for Thurso is beautifully formatted and its content is sourced within the prose of the text and by the references cited therein.
  • The town's shield is licensed CC BY-SA 3.0 and is therefore suitable for inclusion in this info box.
  • The image of Thurso from Mountpleasant is licensed CC BY-SA 2.0, and is also suitable for inclusion in this template.
  • The locator map is licensed CC BY-SA 3.0 and is also good to go for this article.
  • The lede is otherwise well-written, consists of content that is adequately sourced and verifiable, and I have no further comments or questions for this section.

Etymology

  • I wonder if the sentence flows better if written "Norse influence altered its name to..." This is merely a suggestion, though.
  • I suggest wiki-linking Scots to Scots language, and rendering the Scots name with italics rather than quotation marks so that it is consistent with the other historical names of the town.
  • This section is otherwise well-written, consists of content that is adequately sourced and verifiable, and I have no further comments or questions for this section.

History

  • The image if St. Peter's Kirk, Thurso is licensed CC BY-SA 3.0 and is therefore acceptable for use here.
  • It wouldn't hurt to wiki-link Caithness.
  • In the second paragraph, I'd suggest adding a comma after "In 1811"
  • You may want to use the convert template for five-acre for those unfamiliar with the measurement.
  • RNLI may need spelling out and wiki-linked to Royal National Lifeboat Institution in its first mention.
  • The image of Thurso from the north has been released into the public domain and is therefore suitable for inclusion here.
  • Is there an inline citation for the last sentence of the first paragraph of the Governance subsection? The same goes for the sentence at the end of the second paragraph.
  • This section is otherwise well-written, consists of content that is adequately sourced and verifiable, and I have no further comments or questions for this section.

Geography

  • The image of Thurso from the river is licensed CC BY-SA 2.0 and the image of Scrabster Harbour is licensed CC0; therefore, both are suitable for use here.
  • Is there any readily available information regarding vegetation and topography? If not, this is not a deal breaker as this section is pretty comprehensive as is.
  • The table "Climate data for Thurso, Scotland" has been beautifully formatted and is sourced and verifiable.
  • This section is otherwise well-written, consists of content that is adequately sourced and verifiable, and I have no further comments or questions for this section.

Economy

  • The image of Rotterdam Street, Thurso is licensed CC BY-SA 2.0 and is therefore good to go.
  • I would rephrase as: "Historically, Thurso was known for its production of linen cloth..."
  • Is there an inline citation for the final sentence of the first paragraph of this section?
  • This section is otherwise well-written, consists of content that is adequately sourced and verifiable, and I have no further comments or questions for this section.

Landmarks

  • The image of the old church is licensed CC BY 2.0 and the image of Holburn Head Lighthouse is licensed CC0; therefore, both are good to go for inclusion in this article.
  • I would wiki-link "The Category A listed" to Listed building#Scotland, as some readers may require more context regarding Scotland's historic preservation and recognition programme.
  • I suggest changing the caption to the image as "Old St Peter's Church (St. Peter's Kirk)."
  • This section is otherwise well-written, consists of content that is adequately sourced and verifiable, and I have no further comments or questions for this section.

Education

  • The image of Pennyland House is licensed CC BY-SA 2.0 and is therefore suitable for inclusion here.
  • This section is well-written, consists of content that is adequately sourced and verifiable, and I have no comments or questions for this section.

Sport

  • The image of the surf in Thurso is licensed CC0 and is therefore acceptable for inclusion here.
  • I suggest wiki-linking Tesco.
  • This section is otherwise well-written, consists of content that is adequately sourced and verifiable, and I have no further comments or questions for this section.

Transport

  • The image of the Thurso railway station is licensed CC BY-SA 2.0 and is therefore suitable for use here.
  • I would modify the last sentence of the first paragraph to "It is now part of the Far North Line." I'd also add an inline citation for this statement.
  • This section is otherwise well-written, consists of content that is adequately sourced and verifiable, and I have no further comments or questions for this section.

Twin towns

  • This section is well-written, consists of content that is adequately sourced and verifiable, and I have no comments or questions for this section.

Notable people

  • This section is well-written, consists of content that is adequately sourced and verifiable, and I have no comments or questions for this section.

Cheers West Virginian, I believe SG has addressed virtually all points. Except the government info, neither of us could find anything, that's why it wasn't well sourced earlier actually. Is this OK?♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:36, 23 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Dr. Blofeld, thank you both for addressing my concerns and comments in such a timely and thorough manner! Thank you for all your hard work on this one, again! It's always refreshing to see smaller towns and municipalities represented with Good Articles! I hereby pass this article to Good Article status. -- West Virginian (talk) 14:13, 23 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thankyou Sir. Thanks SG too for helping!♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:40, 23 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I copied the following from my own talk page which was not the right place for it. ----Ehrenkater (talk) 15:47, 9 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Some of your edits are OK but you introduced too many problematic ones to accept your recent edits. Please don't remove mention of hotels for starters, and don't add a silly "clarify" on church hearings tag.♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:59, 8 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This is not a tourist guide: the list of hotels constitutes advertising. And what does "church hearings" mean?----Ehrenkater (talk) 18:01, 8 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Also, as "some of the edits are OK", why revert them ?----Ehrenkater (talk) 18:02, 8 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Rubbish. I have many high quality articles at GA or FA which document hotels. Too many editors dismiss mentioning hotels as travel guidey. If you write it as if you're advertising them then its problematic but for comprehension sake briefly mentioning a few of the most notable ones is fine. You also moved the part about gravestones being vandalised from the church and underneath the lighthouse.[2] Makes no sense. The source doesn't explain what a church hearing is, any attempt to do so would be OR.[1] Your other minor edits looked OK though. I reverted (as I said) because you made too many problematic edits. Find a way to deal with my concerns and make your other edits stick and we'll be fine! ♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:04, 8 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
First, will copy this to the article's talk page so that other editors can actually read it.----Ehrenkater (talk) 15:45, 9 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
[1] This is nonsense. If you don't understand what something means, then don't put it in.----Ehrenkater (talk) 15:49, 9 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
[2] If the episode of gravestones being vandalised is notable (which is debatable) then it belongs under "history", not under "landmarks".----Ehrenkater (talk) 15:55, 9 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Pronunciation of "Thurso"?[edit]

The article currently states that the town is pronounced "Thursso". However I have heard the locals call it "Thurzo". Which is correct? 86.170.121.225 (talk) 10:18, 10 December 2017 (UTC) The latter would make more sense.[reply]

Thurso "would make even Mary Poppins weep,"[edit]

according to a guidebook I read!

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