Talk:P'tit Quinquin (song)

The famous refrain (in Picard):	might be translated into French as:
Dors, min p'tit quinquin, Min p'tit pouchin, min gros rojin Te m'fras du chagrin Si te n'dors point ch'qu'à d'main.	Dors, mon petit enfant, Mon petit poussin, mon gros raisin, Tu me feras du chagrin Si tu ne dors pas jusqu'à demain.
And into English literally as:
"Sleep, my little child, "My little chick, my plump grape, "You will cause me grief "If you don't sleep until tomorrow"

Can anyone rewrite the English to make an idiomatic lullaby chorus (which can be put in the bottom right section of the table)? In the original Picard language version, all of lines rhyme. I think it would be a nice addition to the article, because the literal translation doesn't exactly run smoothly. Cheers, fabiform | talk 21:17, 19 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Does it mangle it too much to say the below?

"Sleep, my child so dear,
my baby chick, my treasured one,
I will be filled with fear,
unless you sleep 'til rise of sun."

Maybe it's a starting point. Jwrosenzweig 21:26, 19 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Third line alternative--"My eyes will fill with tears" ? Jwrosenzweig

At the same time, MykReeve and I came up with another aabb pattern: little one/plum/woe/tomorrow.

By the way, I wasn't very clear before. All four lines in the original end in the same sound, so the rhyming pattern they used was actually aaaa! fabiform | talk 22:25, 19 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Two tries, neither perfect but may inspire better:

Sleep my little one, my sweet
My darling one, my joy, my treat
For you will cause me grief complete
If you don't sleep 'till dawn we greet

Or in couplets as I prefer (but it doesn't meet the request) the last lines could be:

For you will cause me grief and sorrow
If you don't sleep until tomorrow

Feel free to play with these. Andrewa 23:13, 19 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I say don't worry too much about rhyme scheme, but avoid the doggerel rhythm of that last attempt. -- Jmabel 23:20, 19 Feb 2004 (UTC)

What does doggerel mean? fabiform | talk 01:42, 21 Feb 2004 (UTC) (not a poet!)

It's a polite way of saying bad poetry. :-) Can refer to overwrought attempts to sound poetic, to force rhymes with unusual phrasing, or to have rigidly forced rhythm with simplistic words or phrases. I sold a couple of poems to a magazine once and was crushed when the next was returned with the note "I'm afraid it's doggerel." Sigh. Elf 01:48, 21 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Oh, harsh! Those two versions were my favorite. I mean this is a lullaby, and has a very rigid structure in the original, compare a random lullaby/nursery rhyme:

Rock-a-bye baby, in the tree top

When the wind blows, the cradle will rock

When the bough breaks, the cradle will fall

And down will come baby, cradle and all

It's not designed to be "high art", but the meter and rhyme structure is paramount. fabiform | talk 10:16, 21 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Oh, agreed. But look how simple and flowing and honest the language is. It doesn't feel forced. Compare to something like (especially awful with no attempt at meter, but just to give an example):

Rock-a-bye, O babe, 'top tree high

When bloweth doth the wind, rocking shall be nigh... :-)

Elf 04:24, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Now I understand. So the trick is to write it with a rigid structure, but make it flow so naturally that it reads as if you didn't even notice what you were doing. :) fabiform | talk 12:21, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I was trying to play with close rhymes and following the pattern of the original... but I haven't been able to get beyond the first two lines.

Sleep, my own tiny babe,
My tiny chick, my luscious grape...
Elf 23:05, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Try

Sleep, please sleep, my precious babe

(My tiny chick, my luscious grape)

'Cause your mum knows that you go ape

If you don't sleep 'till sunup, mate.

(;-> No not really, but now that is what I call doggerel. But one man's high art is another man's doggerel! I think one of the best lines ever (not poetry) is Carl Barks' line for Scrooge McDuck: In Bagdad my Bagdad bag factory got in bad with the Bagdad bigdads because of a bad sag the bags had! Some people don't even think it's funny. (Needs to be said fast and confidently.)

My favourite poet would be Ogden Nash. I would guess he had a fair few 'doggerel' slips from editors too, so potential contributors take heart! Hmmm, is it unkind to notice that my critic above hasn't actually taken up my explicit invitation to improve on my efforts? Andrewa 17:18, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Slumber, infant mine,
Little one, apple of my eye,
It sore troubles me,
If you shan't sleep to morrow come. -- Cimon Avaro on a pogostick 23:21, Feb 20, 2004 (UTC)

Doesn't "ere" mean "before"? Perhaps "an" would be better if you're looking for an older form of "if"? fabiform | talk 01:44, 21 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Hm. It was a bit stilted anyway, I've tried to fix it above.

I looked at the Picard again, and I realised that there was more rhyming/assonance than I had said. Here's how I think the verse is pronounced:

(an is nasalized)

dor, man ptee kankan
man ptee pookan, man gro' ro'jan
tuh mfrah doo shah-gran
see tuh ndor pwan sh-kah duhman

Eek!

Well, here's my first go using an aaaa pattern, and a vague internal one/sun assonance:

Off to sleep, my wren
My little one, my plump peahen
I will cry, you ken
If you rise before the sun again

"Ken" kind of stands out like a sore thumb though. :) fabiform | talk 13:49, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

You can hear the chorus being sung in French (which sounds similar to Picard), here:

fabiform | talk 16:23, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)