Talk:Thalassocracy

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Older comments[edit]

Paragraphs one and three in the introduction seem to say much the same thing. Should one be deleted or modified?? I have also changed θαλασσο to θαλασσα, since the latter is the actual Greek word, whilst the former doesn't exist as a Greek word in any form I know of.

Am I right to think that thalassocracy is not really a Greek expression as the entry promises, but an inauthentic English language coinage in Greek? Perhaps such a fine distinction will arouse troglodyte resistance. There is something fatally unidiomatic about it, nevertheless, and the wise might be warned off. I suppose it is not permitted to mention that the word in English, of an English coining, has a faintly inflated sound that may lend an unfortunate and preposterous color: I would never use it in discourse. Maritime empire suffices. The Delian League, the federation of Ionian cities, the Athenian Empire, the Phoenician empire, and the Dutch East Indies pre-1700 are not yet mentioned here. --Wetman 10:51, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Many numerous English words were coined with their current meaning in English, and no-one cares (well, perhaps a large minority do, but the words have common currency and probably most don't notice they're englic). Many numerous English words were coined with their current meaning in English from parts of words that don't necessarily come from the same stock: Enlightenment (french sandwiching english, from french (en-) to english (light), english again (-en), and finally back to french (-ment)) is the only one I can think of OTTOMH, but there's dozens which mix Greek and Latin elements. Felix the Cassowary 08:42, 9 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The word Thalassocracy WAS coined by the ancient Greeks, but, contrary to the article, not used by them to describe Minoan Crete - it was devised to refer to the Athenian empire, if I remember correctly. The application of the word to the Minoans was invented by modern (well, early 20th century) archaeologists - Thucydides compares the Minoans to the Athenian naval empire of his own day, but stops short of actually calling them a Thalassocracy. Hagg, R. & Marinatos, N. 1984 "The Minoan Thalassocracy: Myth and Reality" is a v. useful vol. of conference proceedings but I don't have access to it at the moment so I can't write a cited correction. Shall return to this page as soon as I can, unless someone beats me to it. RaygunGothic 10:31, 13 Feb 2006 (GMT)

I think it would be wildly inappropriate t merge mariner Republics with Thalassocracy, simply because the historiography does not use the word.

On the other hand, 'Mariner' Republics' and its Italian equivalent is equally absurd. The article should not be merged. It should be moved to "Maritime Republics". Alan 09:52, 10 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A note on consistency: "Therefore, empires such as the British Empire were not thalassocracies." is followed by ... "replaced on the high seas by the British Empire, whose landed possessions were immense and held together by the greatest navy of its time." thus suggestions the British Empire is a thallasocracy. Should this be adjusted?

Add To "Sea Power"[edit]

I've just spent a week trying to find this page becasue it's basically hidden; Thalassocracy means "sea Power," yet the "Sea Power" page goes straight to naval militry power, and makes no refrence to this term. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.10.167.226 (talk) 00:51, 30 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Needs research and definition[edit]

Need a better definition and a section on origin and usage. Literslly it is "sea-rule," but that has to be taken in context. No, it is not a form of government as any state of any type can be a thalassocracy. Whether the government box is appropriate needs to be looked at again. It isn't government or even necessarily the exercise of government. Many pirate fleets have been great thalassocrats. kratein is a verb, "to rule." Rule Britannia, Britannia rule the waves, but what does that actually mean? Cut throats, ram ships, collect fees, compell service, have a bigger or better fleet, be able to stop or allow traffic, what? Context, friends, context. We got a good start in the Aristagoras article but that start perhaps belongs over here. See the talk page on Aristagoras to give your vote.Botteville (talk) 20:11, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

New infobox proposal - looking for consensus[edit]

Thalassocracy is a word innovated by John Myres to explain the power contentions in the Aegean at the time of the Ionian revolt. It caught on in classical historical writing to such a degree that it subsequently became a general historical term with modern uses. It is coupled in this article with "Basic forms of government," a box. But, be careful, it is NOT a basic form of government! It is not a government of any kind but it can be one of any kind, as any government can be a thalassocracy. Thalassocracy does not refer to a type of government as you would find it in political science. The misunderstanding starts with Myres. He chose to innovate the word in the pattern of the -ocracy words such as autocracy, democracy, and the like. In these words "cracy" is rule, with the prefix expressing the agent of rule: "the people," "self", and so on. Bureaucracy, "rule by a bureau." In thalassocracy the sea does not rule, it is ruled. Only a classicist would know that, hence the error that thalassocracy is a form of government. This is a bad error, you know. It isn't form of government. I spent some hours looking for an infobox and wouldn't you know it could not find one even partly suitable. Therefore I propose we create a new infobox for the article, "infobox historical concept." There are many concepts developed in the study of history and then applied to modern uses. This IB would contain the name, a couple of pictures, the etymology, the original definition, the modern uses, and mention of the key historical contributors. What do you say?Botteville (talk) 06:37, 12 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Norwegian realm?[edit]

Hi, I wonder if the material on the NR covered in this article would be a useful addition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Norway_(872%E2%80%931397) ...? T 84.208.65.62 (talk) 03:41, 16 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]