Talk:Blast beat

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Untitled[edit]

The classic blast beat is alternating bass and snare done at a 16th note pace with cymbal synced to the bass hits. 1 and is bass and e and a is snare. Doing full 16ths on snare alone is more of a gravity blast.


many drummers do, in fact, play blasts with 1 foot, unless their playing at ludicrous speeds, like 240 up. so anyway, i'm changing that.

This list was removed from the article for lack or sources. --The_stuart 17:35, 9 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Key artists[edit]

nu-metal?[edit]

Since when do nu-metal bands use blast beats? Neither of the bands listed have their usage mentioned on their respective page. I removed the reference fr now - if someone can confirm nu-metal bands use blast beats do re-add it Spearhead 15:59, 23 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Listen to the track People = Shit by Slipknot, or Three Nil, also by Slipknot and try tell me Joey Jordison does not use blast beats, in Slipknot which is classified mainly as Nu-Metal. User:Kit Fallapart 22:16, 20 September 2006

"Blast beats are a prominent feature of death metal, black metal and grindcore, although they make appearances in other genres from time to time" should cover that. It's not a main feature of nu-metal. Spearhead 16:53, 20 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

---


It tould be awesome if some one could add a .ogg blast beat demonstartion.--The_stuart 22:30, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I'm fairly positive that Napalm Death's first drummer was Mick Harris not Mitch Harris. If I'm wrong, please undo my changes.

--User:Macho


Not the first, but at least he's the drummer. Mitch is the guitarist (unrelated) Spearhead 21:37, 1 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Do what????

Should be performed with one foot for the best effect.

I'm no drummer, but since when did anybody play a snare with their feet? --Camembert

What's more, what is the 'point of retribution'??? Is this a drummer thang???quercus robur

I didn't even notice that - sounds like tremendous fun (for somebody), whatever it is. --Camembert

I made a bit of a cleanup, but am unable to contribute more as I'm not much of a metalhead.

--Furrykef 05:02, 15 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

I think that the wording "torrents of alternating snare and bass" is confusing. If the bass and snare were played alternately, would this not be the 'bomtish' beat that is often played by a wide variety of metal bands (thrash etc. especially). I have always held blastbeat to mean where bass and snare are played simultaneously.
I also read in an interview with derek roddy that blastbeats originate in extreme jazz, and many of the players could play the beats far faster than many metal players due to their skill.

--Anon

BLAST BEATS[edit]

Takin' It To the Streets, by the Doobie Brothers. Now that song is catchy.

Blast beats are the torrents of alternating snare and bass which increase the speed of death metal at the point of retribution. Should be preformed with a single bass pedal --65.212.160.75 16:25, 11 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I added some stuff, added a bit of history, as far as I know, it's the earliest album with blast beats on it. If anyone knows an earlier one, feel free to correct.

Blast beat tab[edit]

If someone could add a tab or notation of a blast beat like on D-beat, that'd be great. —Quirk 23:20, 22 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Removal of "Notable artists"[edit]

Spearhead has repeatedly removed artists who who "notable artists" (supposedly, I'm not sure, It's not my favorite genre of music). Is this vandalism and personal preferences, or are these drummers actually NOT notable artists. Both Spearhead and users adding artists, such as dbftz, seem to be contributive, productive users. Evan Seeds (talk) 16:19, 21 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Many drummers are repeatedly added to this list by mostly anonymous users... for many of them I'm not even sure they use blast beats at all. Hence I slammed the comment in article to discuss additions on the talk page first. So I am quite aggresssively removing drummers from this list (as well as other of these controversial lists) Spearhead 16:32, 21 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Alright, fair enough. I'll trust your discretion then. Evan Seeds (talk) 22:08, 21 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Umm, how about instead of randomly removing all drummers, you instead just check out the drummer to see if they actually are a death metal drummer? Just removing all notable artists would be like removing all bands from the list of notable death metal bands, just because they "might not even be death metal." Isn't the fundamental assumption with Wikipedia that generally, people do the best they can to post accurate information? If we can't trust this, what the hell is the point of an encyclopedia which anyone can edit?
(unsigned)
Certainly Vaders drummer, who I added, should be on the list --PopUpPirate 08:17, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
There are many drummers that can play blast beats, however not all of them contributed something to the technique or application thereof. This list should grow to cover all of these drummers, but just the crucial ones. If you want such a list of all drummers that play blastbeats, start List of drummers that use blast beats. Spearhead 11:11, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I added Attila, one of the earliest documented examples of a blastbeat in a song/instrumental. It is as provable as anything else on this page and deserves inclusion as it is possibly the first blast beat ever played. It belongs in the history section. User:Kit Fallapart 22:19 20 September 2006
is it? I never heard it referenced as a blast beat inspirtation. And AFAIK it's never been cited as a source of inspiration for blast beat drummers. Also "Jon small" "blast beats" doesn't find any articles... and blast beasts and attila seems only to find articles linking to Mayhem. Spearhead 16:50, 20 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I re-added Fenriz of Darkthrone and added Varg Vikernes, the reasons are that both have used blast beats before some bands that appear on the list. Darkthrone is obvious, but before you start asking "why Varg?" Well, listen to his first Album (Burzum), blast beats are used there and that album is older than some bands mentioned on the list, and since Burzum/Darkthrone are considered to be of the most influential Black metal bands, I really think they should be on the list. Cancerbero 8 20:11, 13 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

And so I re-removed them. Neither are key artists and Varg isn't even a notable drummer; the fact that they do use blasts doesn't warrant inclusion. Only drummers that added anything substantial to the technique / style should be here on the list, not every drummer that uses blasts. Spearhead 21:28, 13 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Your need to keep it so confined and control it (which is ridiculous) makes the list itself seem unnecessary to be included in the article and you'd likely do better to consider splitting it out entirely in a new article just as you suggested above. Especially since you aren't providing adequate reasoning behind your iron-grip on the section in order to keep a majority of the artists that comprise the list currently, aside from Mick Harris, Charlie Benante, Alex Hernandez, Flo Mounier, Pete Sandoval, Max Duhamel and Dave Hollingshead who actually are mentioned in the body of the article. --75.2.60.123 06:47, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I am not adding such a list as I doubt that it would be a valid category acocrding to WP policy and I don't see any need for it. But I won't stand in any one's way to create it. Second, like I said before, the list is not intended to be an indefinite list of all drummers that use blast beats, simply for the reason that that would be thousands. What is listed here are drummers that actually contributed to the technique/style - maybe few are more in the category good examples. My reasoning for inclusion is simply - provide actual reasons why the should be included in the list. Putting in "hey drummer X uses blasts" or "band Y is very popular" or "this band is really old and uses blasts" are simply not very good reasons. Like what happened on the similar article death grunt we can put up a voting here as for whom to include. Spearhead 16:47, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The name "key artists" causes confusion, because you're saying "only those that contributed to the technique" doesn't mean that those who use blast beats in all of their songs shouldn't be included. I had re-added Fenriz because all of Darkthrone songs have blast beats, since their first album to the newest one, I mean, have you even listened to the Transilvanian Hunger album for example? "Key artists" should be a guide for people to listen to a song by certain band and understand what blast beats are if they don't actually understand the terminology used or don't want to listen to the sample file or whatever, what if they listened to "The pestilence that walketh in darkness" by Cryptopsy because Mounier is mentioned a lot in the article? Darkthrone is not only a popular band, but they have more albums than some of the bands mentioned AND they use blast beats in ALL of the songs; and how have some of the bands there contributed to the technique? If you really want to keep this list only with the artists YOU want, then at least mention in the article that your list includes only those who have helped the technique, not only being pioneers in performing it. Cancerbero 8 01:40, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
"Key" means "essential" or "fundamental" which rather different from "uses all the time". If that would be the criteria... this list would become really long. If you want to point ppl to listen to a sample... include a sample (which there already is) Spearhead 16:47, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]


John Longstreth should be on this list, it's really funny that you seem to think otherwise while maintaining that "Only drummers that added anything substantial to the technique / style should be here on the list".


Frost from Satyricon should be on his list, because he plays extremely tight and very fast beats on many albums, especially on Rebel Extravaganza. blobtick
This section should be removed... There is one user who keeps on keeping the artists he thinks are notable and removing those that the other people think are notable... This is completely stupid, just remove the list... Those who are important are already mentioned on the article...--Cancerbero 8 01:09, 5 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Current picture[edit]

The tab in the picture does NOT depict a blast beat but rather an ordinary double time drum beat. A blast beat has a snare hit every 8th note, i.e. 8 snare hits in a 4/4 bar. The picture needs to be corrected or removed. - Quirk 20:34, 14 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Removed. If someone has Sibelius or a similar tabbing program please feel free to add a correct tablature of a blast beat. - Quirk 20:39, 14 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Technical definition?[edit]

According to the article, a blast beat is solely a beat consisting of alternating bass and snare beats (sort of a reverse polka/punk beat). However, from what I've heard as a drummer, and what seems to be common knowledge among drummers, a blast beat is generally constant eight/sixteenth notes or triplets on the bass drum with a normal back beat pattern on the cymbal and snare, which contradicts the article's definition. Is there any 'official' source of which is which? -- Evan Seeds (talk) 05:02, 28 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's ok, I've made the correction. Sepul^ 13:29, 21 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sound sample/Technical Definition[edit]

The .ogg file posted here definitely has the blast beat backwards. The vast majority of blast beats alternate between the bass drum/cymbal and the snare, with the bass drum/cymbal coming first. It's like a polka beat played at a ludicrous speed. Some drummers play a double bass drum roll underneath the cymbal and snare; others simply hit the bass drum, cymbal, and snare at the same time as fast as humanly possible. I've also seen several drummers switch hands while going into blast beats so that their stronger (usually right) arm will hit the snare at the same time as the bass drum.

Very few, however, play blast beats with the snare/cymbal leading before the kick drum, as it is in the sound sample on this page. Although there are some drummers who play it this way, it's pretty far from being the norm. I think most drummers would agree that, while there are many different ways of playing it, the most common blast beat consists of rapidly alternating kick/cymbal and snare hits-- not the other way around.

there seems to be a lot of confusion about a technical defnition of a blast beat. distinguishing between the euroblast and the u.s.-blast might bring some clarification. as far as I have experienced it, the more european style of blast beat is the one with cymbal and base together and the snare syncopated. the u.s.-stile is base, cymbal and snare toghether. listening samples of euro blast is practically all black metal (emperor, keep of kalessin, etc.), a sample for u.s.-blast would be Arsis or most american, especially tampa bay death metal. to create what has been called a "wall of sound" the u.s.-blastbeat requires more speed (since the sincopated snare of the euro-blast makes it even at 160bpm seem really fast). the term euro-blast and u.s.-blast should not divide the metal/grind scene into two fractions but show the slight differences of the interpretation of what a "wall of sound" is. plus, both styles are used in the u.s. and europe.

the .ogg sample would be a backward euro-blast.

The December 2007 issue of Modern Drummer has it notated as bass+ride and snare alternating. It goes on to give a few other examples, but the european style is essentially described as the basis for all methods. Thedarxide (talk) 16:20, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Beastie Boys "Riot Fight"[edit]

thats right, you missed it!!

Iron Maiden?[edit]

The title song off of Iron Maiden's self titled released in 1980 utilizes a blast beat, making it among the first significant uses of it; the song, recorded onto that album in 1980, was written earlier and was featured on Maiden's Soundhouse Tapes, which were recorded in 1978. Iron Maiden was not only a large influence on the 80s metal scene, but did reach some fans in the hardcore punk community, which might indicate that D.R.I. among many others were inspired to use blast beats by them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.95.47.42 (talk) 00:18, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Where in the song do you hear this? Bossk-Office (talk) 07:32, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thomas Lang Demonstrating Blast Beat[edit]

I added a link to Drummerworld and Thomas Lang demonstrating a Blast beat. Seems appropriate to have a visual, especially from Lang. Regards GetAgrippa (talk) 22:09, 25 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Probably a good resource[edit]

I am no drummer, so can't really contribute to the technical aspect of this article but this looks like it should be a decent resource for some with more understanding than I :) Blackmetalbaz (talk) 15:02, 24 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Another decent source that may be of some use found here and here. Allegedly Derek Roddy is interviewed in Issue 5, which is supposedly online. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 16:43, 9 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What’s the ”Ekeroth” source?[edit]

One of the footnotes just reads ”Ekeroth, page 22”. But there’s no bibliography and no mention of this book anywhere. We should fix this! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.251.142.68 (talk) 07:16, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Baker and Moon[edit]

This drum pattern seems to me to be identical to that performed live by Ginger Baker in SWLABR and Keith Moon in Happy Jack, both of which were often played much faster live than on the studio versions, and both of them predating 1982 by a good deal. Check out YouTube for some appalling recordings of awesome drumming of the period. (Or perhaps I'm just showing my age.) Andrewa (talk) 18:19, 31 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Youtube isn't a reliable source for this sort of thing (for example, you couldn't say "Ginger Baker and Keith Moon both played blast beats live<ref>Youtube</ref>"). But if you found a reliable source discussing their playing as incorporating blast beats live, that could probably be added. MrMoustacheMM (talk) 00:39, 1 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Agree, we should not update the article just on the information I've provided (otherwise I would have!). This is just a start, a heads-up that there's a possibility that the current article is wrong or at least misleading about the technique dating from 1982.
What it actually says [1] is Daniel Ekeroth argues that the blast beat was first performed by the Swedish [[D-beat]] group Asocial on their 1982 demo.<ref>Ekeroth, p. 22.</ref>. This is presumably a reference to Daniel Ekeroth's book Swedish Death Metal [2]; The ref should also be fixed.
I'm almost tempted to fix the ref at least, but really shouldn't as I'm guessing and haven't sighted the book. It looks as if this claim, ref and all, has been cut and pasted from another article, and the ref refers back to an earlier, fuller reference to Ekeroth's book in that source article, which unfortunately didn't come with what we now have. If we could find the specific edits, that would probably provide some valid reasons for fixing it.
But then, I also wonder how reliable Ekeroth is on the matter of the origins of the technique? Andrewa (talk) 10:53, 3 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Adam MacGregor's definition[edit]

"The blast-beat generally comprises a repeated, sixteenth-note figure played at a very fast tempo, and divided uniformly among the bass drum, snare, and ride, crash, or hi-hat cymbal."

I think the quoted definition in the opening passage is too specific - not all the examples given in the article are sixteenth-note, including the tab right next to the quote. Also what does "divided uniformly" mean? - is it a bizarre way of saying 'played on all of...'?Bitbut (talk) 02:57, 5 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Cyclone blast[edit]

This video[1] depicts a blast beat known as a cyclone blast beat with the double bass being used in "bursts". Songs this is heard in are Fear Factory's "Cyberwaste" and Asesino's "Regresando Odio". — Preceding unsigned comment added by RadiumMetal (talk • contribs) 17:13, 26 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see that video to be enough of a reliable source for confirming that "cyclone blast beat" is a term that should be included here. Can you find better sources discussing "cyclone blast beats"? MrMoustacheMM (talk) 19:48, 26 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7TgWeAXdxE

Angelo Spampinato[edit]

There's a drummer named Angelo Spampinato but he looks young to be a jazz drummer from the 50's, 60's or 70's. So I think it should be removed among the blast beat pioneers. --Generale Lee (talk) 13:44, 23 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Jazz[edit]

The bit about Trio of Doom is okay, but isn't it a bit ridiculous to single out Tony Williams of all the jazz drummers? there are clearly "blast beats" on Albert Ayler's "Nuits de la Fondation Maeght" - 1970 - just for example - and probably plenty a lot earlier than that[1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.171.245.83 (talk) 23:44, 23 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNK7ovE1Rgc&list=PLiN-7mukU_RHmTsz0FiaPKa09hd1Hc-zJ

Rude kids (1979) - First blast beats or proto blast beats[edit]

Swedish band Rude kids on album Safe Society (https://www.discogs.com/The-Rude-Kids-Safe-Society/master/1059426) link to video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWr_aNrBg7M delete that soft jazz Trio of doom Sergey Woropaew (talk) 06:50, 12 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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