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This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.
In the section called 'Matsui's reaction to the massacre', I request for where it says "On December 1937, as General Iwane Matsui began to comprehend the full extent of the rape, murder, and looting in the city, he grew increasingly dismayed" to "On December 1937, as General Iwane Matsui began to comprehend the full extent of the rape, torture, murder, and looting in the city, he grew increasingly dismayed" please. 95.147.145.134 (talk) 13:44, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Semi-protected edit request on 18 April 2024[edit]
This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.
I request for where It says "Rape and looting was widespread" to "Rape, torture, and looting was widespread". 95.147.145.134 (talk) 21:11, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Is there a source that states that torture was widespread? I see sources for widespread rape and looting in the article but not torture. Traumnovelle (talk) 21:21, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. --Ferien (talk) 22:06, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi there everyone! I want to argue that the image of the person stabed in their genitals is unnecessary and does not enough for the article to warrent such an extreme image.
I guess its purpose is to depict the extremes of the massacre. As much as I get that I though want to ask if that is necessary? (similarly with some other close images of single corpses, mostly children) Nsae Comp (talk) 22:25, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Per WP:NOTCENSORED and WP:PROFANE, no they should not be removed. The images have captions which tie them into the article in an encyclopaedic fashion. Traumnovelle (talk) 22:30, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am not disputing that thei caption is encyclopaedic. I am questioning if they are necessary. As above WP:PROFANE and WP:Manual of Style/Images states:"Material that would be considered vulgar or obscene by typical Wikipedia readers should be used if and only if its omission would cause the article to be less informative, [...]" ... so once again: is it a necessary image to warrent the offensive- and disrepectfulness of the image? Is the article less informative if only the caption remains as normal text or does the reader get more knowledgable by seeing this image? Nsae Comp (talk) 23:14, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The captions make little sense without the image itself, furthermore without images it's easy to say 'okay X wrote about but is there proof'. Traumnovelle (talk) 23:37, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia doesnt need to proove anything, it has to only reference the proof. So I really dont see the necessity of the image. It is not adding to the informativeness of the article. Well at least if you dont find it informative to see how stabed genitals look like. Also, why are we censoring other such images from the massacre? Why this one? Why is it so informative? Nsae Comp (talk) 00:33, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
All images of a massacre will be obscene or vulgar, massacres are brutal things. It's odd to talk about John Magee and the images he captured without including them. They're of value to the reader which is why they've been in the article for so long. They're included with tertiary sources talking about the event as well. Traumnovelle (talk) 00:36, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am not disputeing anything you said. But I am still asking why is this one included, why is it so important to warrent the degree of imagery. My argument is, that the following image of the old lady at the site is more than enough. Nsae Comp (talk) 05:43, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The only valid reason to argue for it's removal is that the photo does not actually relate to the Nanking Massacre. Arguments about offensive aren't valid. Other articles like the Manila massacre also have an offensive image in the article. Traumnovelle (talk) 05:51, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well the Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Images says otherwise, as cited above. Nsae Comp (talk) 05:55, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
(and no the Manila massacre does not feature anything like this image, there is only one image of a person lying dead in some rubble without anything like the image here) Nsae Comp (talk) 05:59, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
How is (left) significantly different to (right)? Traumnovelle (talk) 06:01, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thats not the Nanjing Massacre image that this discussion is about. Nsae Comp (talk) 12:41, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think the pictures should be included in the article.
According to WP:PROFANE, "Material that could be considered vulgar, obscene, or offensive should not be included unless it is treated in an encyclopedic manner."
Furthermore, WP:PROFANE also provides an example to clarify the rule, "Similarly, editors of articles such as Car do not include images of vehicles with naked women posing near them, even though such images exist and "Wikipedia is not censored", due to concerns about relevance. Wikipedia is not censored, but Wikipedia also does not favor offensive images over non-offensive images."
So why should it be included?
According to this source [1],"John G. Magee witnessed the Japanese invasion of Nanking (Nanjing) in December of 1937 and the subsequent Nanking Massacre. At great risk to his own well-being and safety, Magee filmed and photographed atrocities perpetrated by the Japanese soldiers against the citizens of Nanking, He was later able to smuggle these films out of Nanking, providing evidence and witness to the war crimes that had taken place."
The inclusion of such pictures would be considered encyclopedic because it provides evidence of the massacre, and illustrate the heinous nature of the crimes. There are no alternative images.
Images containing nudity and genitalia are not against Wikipedia's rules. For example, despite descibing the atrocity in the text, there are nude pictures of Phan as a child with her injuries. I can't see any notable distinction between that situation and the current one.[2]LilAhok (talk) 06:03, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ok finally an argument about its necessity:"illustrate the heinous nature of the crimes"
Ok, but is it really not clear that it was heinous? Do we have to repeat and amplify the display of the rape?
Do we have to show every cruelty, isnt a text enough? Nsae Comp (talk) 12:33, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The answer to your question has already been answered in the last paragraph of my previous reponse.
There are two parts to the "necessity" of the pictures: evidence for war crimes and the heinous nature of the crimes. John risked his life because the japanese were trying to prevent footage of the massacre from leaving China. John had to smuggle the footage out of China. It's evidence. It is encyclopedic, especially considering that there is a section in the article that mentions denialist and revisionist narratives about the massacre.
Despite the atrocities and injuries stated in the text, this article about a living person features a photo of a naked child with injuries from a napalm strike.[3]LilAhok (talk) 00:20, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So to end this, I guess you trying to say that this image, because it is an image of such extreme cruelty that it is necessary, showing the extend and countering any lingering doubt about the references (not proof, thats the job of the references). Nsae Comp (talk) 06:25, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Semi-protected edit request on 26 April 2024[edit]
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The edit may be made by any autoconfirmed user. Remember to change the |answered=no parameter to "yes" when the request has been accepted, rejected or on hold awaiting user input. This is so that inactive or completed requests don't needlessly fill up the edit requests category. You may also wish to use the {{ESp}} template in the response. To request that a page be protected or unprotected, make a protection request.
In the subdivision of the Massacre section called 'Nanking Safety Zone and the role of the foreigners', I request for where it says "By February 45, 1938, the International Committee for the Nanking Safety Zone had forwarded to the Japanese embassy a total if 450 cases of murder, rape, and general disorder by Japanese soldiers that had been reported after the American, British, and German diplomats had returned to their embassies" to "By February 45, 1938, the International Committee for the Nanking Safety Zone had forwarded to the Japanese embassy a total of 450 cases of murder, torture, rape, and general disorder by Japanese soldiers that had been reported after the American, British, and German diplomats had returned to their embassies" please. 95.147.145.134 (talk) 15:38, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Two questions:
1) Do you mean by February 5? Because there are not 45 days in Feb.
2) Does the source support the insertion of the word "torture"? Simonm223 (talk) 15:46, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Semi-protected edit request on 26 April 2024 (2)[edit]
This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y".
The edit may be made by any autoconfirmed user. Remember to change the |answered=no parameter to "yes" when the request has been accepted, rejected or on hold awaiting user input. This is so that inactive or completed requests don't needlessly fill up the edit requests category. You may also wish to use the {{ESp}} template in the response. To request that a page be protected or unprotected, make a protection request.
In the subdivision of the Massacre section called 'Nanking Safety Zone and the role of the foreigners', I request for where it says "By February 5, 1938, the International Committee for the Nanking Safety Zone had forwarded to the Japanese embassy a total of 450 cases of murder, rape, and general disorder by Japanese soldiers that had been reported by American, British and German diplomats had returned to their embassies:" to "By February 5, 1938, the International Committee for the Nanking Safety Zone had forwarded to the Japanese embassy a total of 450 cases of murder, torture, rape and general disorder by Japanese soldiers that had been reported by American, British and German diplomats had returned to their embassies:" please. 95.147.145.134 (talk) 21:02, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
level-4 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
Done 
Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. --Ferien (talk) 22:06, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
