Talk:Gas lighting

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Untitled[edit]

There are a lot of pages that point to "Gas lighting" with the assumption that it is about lighting technology, when this page is actually about a movie reference. There should be a disambiguation page, or something to distinguish between these two uses of the phrase.

Chinese Claim[edit]

Removed "The first known gas light was made by the ancient Chinese collecting natural gas in skins that was used for illumination.[citation needed]" as it sounds like a myth, and is unsubstantiated156.34.34.91 23:11, 29 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

it is not a claim it is true. See Confucius —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.81.77.4 (talk) 02:24, 9 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If its a valid claim and there is a reference for it, the reference should be given in the article.Pyrotec (talk) 07:41, 9 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's mentioned in pp.427-428 of Ancient inventions by P. James and N. Thorpe [Michael O Mara Books, 1995], citing a work by the geographer Ch'ang Ch'ü titled Records of the country south of Mount Kua.--91.105.214.196 (talk) 22:34, 26 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Source added to article, though not verified by me. Peterkingiron (talk) 15:52, 27 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The wording sounds quaint[edit]

The general wording of this article sounds quaint, like something from the 19th century. Is this a copy and paste from some public domain source? Samboy 10:25, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

A quick Google search answered your question: yes it is copied, from "The Mirror of Literature, Amusement, and Instruction. Vol. X, No. 290.", dated 29/12/1827. I found a copy of it at Project Gutenberg here and, interestingly enough, a copy of this entire article at "Project Lockergnome" here. They don't cite the source either; I've fixed that here, at least. It's not the first time I've found a Wikipedia article copied wholesale on that site, is this normal? -- Guybrush 12:54, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

My plan...[edit]

FYI, here is my plan for the slow transition of this document. First, I'm going to go through and paraphrase what is in there. The goal is to tighten it up alot and maintain the information from the historical document. I'll do this in batches because it's tedious. After that I plan on supplementing the information and reworking it from other sources. Finally, a final cleanup. After this I'll remove the "paraphrase" comment at the top (leaving the sources link below). If anyone has any objections, please let me know before I finish.  :) Wikibofh 14:10, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

  • Ok, I've finished the first pass. Really, I think what this needs is someone to come along and really whack it down to something more manageable. I will make a go of it again in a week or two, but someone removed a bit from the material would probably be better. Wikibofh 16:43, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The history section of this article is still a huge lump of text. It should be subdivided a bit more, for easier reading.--TexasDex 21:07, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

Wrong dates[edit]

The dates in:

His cottage at their Soho Foundary, near Birmingham, was the first domestic building to be lit by gas, in 1798. The lights covering the works astonished and delighted all the local population. In 1792, he used coal gas for lighting his house and offices, at Redruth, in Cornwall; and in 1797 he again made a similar use of it at Old Cunnock, in Ayrshire.

are out of sequence. Andy Mabbett 21:42, 17 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

  • Yep, looks whacked. As a matter of fact, I can't find the 1798 for Soho in the sources. I'll change it around a bit. Thanks. Wikibofh 22:10, 17 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

early gas experiments: Becher[edit]

What about Johann Joachim Becher, German scientist, whos examined coal destilation in 1681, and observed gas as one of effects of coal distillation? It was before English discoveries in 1730's. I do not know: coal gas fire/lighs was known for Becher or not... Waldemar Brzoskwinia, wbrzoskwin@mimk.com.pl

  • Well, if you can provide some sources, feel free to add it. The bulk of this article is an adaptation of a text from Project Gutenburg. Wikibofh(talk) 16:43, 10 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Radioactivity in gas lamps[edit]

I recall reading in an article on Wikipedia a long ago that gas lamps used "wicks" (or "socks", or what ever it's called) that are radioactive. It's gone to a question of where my parents stashed the gas lighting stuff that used to be at my grandparents house. (Yes, there was gas lighting!) I wouldn't like to be irradiated by old gas lights. Is there any truth in that they have radioactive materials in them? I wouldn't post this as fact, needs confirmation, what were the "wicks" made of? To me they seemed like a small round sock made of white fiber, but I don't know the fiber what they were made of. We had three gas lamps in the house, but they are long gone since my parents got electricity to the old house. I don't remember them in use at all, but I remember them there, and my father told me it's a gas light, and that it's been out of order for a long time. That was 20 years ago. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.230.190.1 (talk • contribs)

Gas mantles (which can still be bought for camping lanterns) are radioactive: I can remember one being used as a source of (beta, I think) radiation in school physics classes in the late 1990's after the education authority took away the more 'interesting' radioactive sources. They're probably not going to do anything outrageously harmful, I shouldn't imagine. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.41.194.67 (talk • contribs)
It's the thorium in the mantle that's radioactive. See our gas mantle article for more details.
Atlant 12:16, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Picture of so called "Office or Household Lamp"[edit]

The second picture on the page "Gas lighting" clearly doesn't show a gas lamp, but instead a special type of chemical lighter, as the were used in the 18./19. century , before the invention of the safety match. The main features are :

- the gas used is hydrogen. This is generated by the action of diluted sulfuric acid ( contained in the stoppered upper glass bowl ) and zinc metal ( greyish chunk faintly visible in the lower glass container ) It uses the principle of the Kipp laboratory apparatus for gas generation.

- the ignition is not by spark , but by catalytic action of platinum on the hydrogen- air - mixture coming out of a small burner tip in front of the apparatus.

Although this interesting piece could have been used to light a gas light, it's picture doesn't belong here. Office or home gas lights were always mounted high on a wall or under the ceiling , because they exhibited powerful open hot and dangerous flames. The more portable lights/lanterns in homes and offices were candles and later almost exclusively petroleum lamps.

85.216.118.194 00:17, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

automation[edit]

"soon gas lights could light themselves". How? Jackzhp 03:15, 3 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Why Automation? 1) Gas lights have a tendency to blow out. When they are extinguished the gas continues to run until turned off or relight. The igniters allow for flame supervision and relight if extinguished. 2) Gas lights burn 24 hours 7 days a week, with an igniter you can limit the run time of the gas light to as little time as you like, saving money and gas.

Types of Igniters 1) 110 volt line voltage igniters http://www.flo-glo.com 2) 24 volt low voltage igniter 3) Solar powered DC igniters http://www.solarigniters.com

Ways to automate your gas lights 1) You can control your gas light on a light switch (24v and 110v igniters) 2) Dusk to Dawn sensors (24v,110v,and solar igniters) 3) You can use a timer to set the run time of your light (24v and 110v igniters)

For more information on Automation of gas lights or gas lights http://www.thegaslightcompany.com

But what kind of gas?[edit]

It say "coal gas", but what gas was used in the first gas lights and lamps? Metan, propane or another kind? Just want to know. 193.217.192.201 17:15, 19 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

See coal gas - it was a mixture of hydrogen, carbon monoxide, methane, and other gasses - the carbon monoxide content is probably what lead to the cliche of sticking one's head in an unlit oven as a method of suicide (more difficult with natural gas, I would expect). --Wtshymanski 17:52, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Gas street lighting today[edit]

In the early 20th century, most cities in the United States and Europe had gaslit streets. However, gas lighting for streets gave way to electric lighting early in the 20th century. Small incandescent electric lamps began to replace gas lights in homes in the late 19th century, although the transition took decades to complete. See, for example, Rural electrification.

Gas lighting has not disappeared completely from cities.

A gas lamp quietly hisses on a former East Berlin street in 2005. A few cities around the world still use gaslight.

The largest gas lighting network in Europe is probably that of Berlin with about 44,000 lamps. Cincinnati, Ohio still uses gaslight in many of its residential neighborhoods. Quite a few streets in central London, the Royal Parks and the exterior of Buckingham Palace remain gaslit. Many neighbourhoods in cities that are trying to recall a nostalgic effect, for example, Beacon Hill in Boston, Massachusetts, the entire town of Glen Ridge, New Jersey, and New Orleans, Louisiana are still illuminated by gas mantle lights. The Park Estate in Nottingham retains much of its original character, including the original gas lighting network

Many gas utility companies will still quote a fixed periodic rate for a customer-maintained gas lamp and homeowners still utilize such devices. However, the high cost of natural gas lighting[ ] at least partly explains why a large number of older gas lamps have been converted to electricity.

Gas lighting is also seeing a resurgence in the luxury home market as an historical accuracy.

The first public street lighting with gas took place in Pall Mall, London on January 28, 1807. In 1812, Parliament granted a charter to the London and Westminster Gas Light and Coke Company, and the first gas company in the world came into being. A few years later, on December 31, 1813, the Westminster Bridge was lit by gas.

I'd just heard about London via bbcamerica. What do these governments say about photovoltaic, global warming?

[[ hopiakuta Please do sign your signature on your message. ~~ Thank You. -]] 12:05, 25 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

definition/description[edit]

"Gas lighting is the process of burning piped natural gas or coal gas for illumination."

That implied that camping gas lamps werent gas lamps. Fixed it. Tabby (talk) 07:25, 6 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The are not. They use kerosene, which is not the same as the gas used in gas lighting. --Bwwm (talk) 13:26, 25 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I thought the blue canisters used in some camping gas lights in UK contained butane, which is gas at room temperature. These are not the paraffin (or kerosene) fueled hurricane lamps that used to be used. However I am neutral as to whether lighting from gas from cylinders really blongs in this article. Peterkingiron (talk) 21:13, 25 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The manufactured gas in the nineteenth century was coal gas. Its primary constituents are methane and hydrogen, with some ethylene. --Bwwm (talk) 17:35, 26 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Reworking[edit]

I'm going to start reworking this article. I don't know if anyone would like to help, but if so, please let me know. --Bwwm (talk) 17:35, 26 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I see there is an article on coal gas that duplicates much of the material from here. I think what I'll do is write a History of manufactured gas article which will combine the material repeated in the those two article. --Bwwm (talk) 17:47, 26 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Mantle Lamps[edit]

Mantle lamps are given only the briefest mention and I think this needs further explanation. Traditional gas lighting back in the day burned the gas without premixing with air which gives a yellow, sooty flame. The yellow flame is directly the light source. When you premix gas with air (note the venturi air inlets on pretty much any gas burner) it burns very hot but with a blue flame (at least for natural gas) and little visible light. The idea of the mantle lamp is that you burn the gas to make heat, not light, but the heat is then used to heat this metal mesh thing called the mantle to incandesence. Modern mantles are specially coated--and this is where the slight radioactivity comes in--to enhance their light generating ability. Mantle lamps are MUCH more efficient than the older direct flame type.

Actually this was the reason I stopped by to look at the article. I wanted to know if mantle lamps existed at all in the gaslight era. The article says they were invented in 1891. While gas lights certainly were around then and beyond and some were probably converted to this new technology, this was well into the electric light era. The reason I find this interesting is that so far as I've ever seen, modern gas lights are all mantle lamps. And when I see them I wonder if the people who deploy them even realize that they are not even close in creating the old fashioned ambience of gas lighting. Yeah, they are powered by gas but still, it's being used to heat up metal to incandescence just like a light bulb. Nothing like the dim flickering orangy yellow of old fashioned gas light.

If someone is reworking the article maybe some of these points could be brought out. Help yourself to anything I've said. Filmteknik (talk) 06:24, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A very good point. Thanks. As you rightly say the early gas lights were, what we might call today, fish-tail burners. These certainly appear to have been replaced by mantle lamps; and there are pictures of UK homes with plumbed-in mantle gas lamps. In the UK, in large cities such as Birmingham, gas street lights were in use within my memory - I think the change over to electric lamps occurred in the 1960s, prior to the UK-wide changeover from town gas to natural gas. It is worth noting, that in the UK electricity only started to become widely available in urban areas from the 1920s onwards and some rural areas might not have got electricity until the 1940s, but some rural area never had piped gas systems (and that is true today in places). Mantle lamps were in also use in modern times, in the form of the portable pressurised Hurricane lamp / Kerosene lamp. There is a separate article on Gas mantles. The short term answer is to add a link to that article using {main|Gas mantle}; and then to add a section on the development of gas lighting over time. Pyrotec (talk) 07:22, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The gas mantle was invented by Welsbach in 1885, and became an important part of gaslight in the 1890s. By the 20th century, gaslight had switched over to using the mantle. In fact, it was a very important part of the industry's response to electricity, and part of the reason electric light did not make faster inroads into the lighting market, especially in the UK. --Bwwm (talk) 12:36, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

'Coal and natural gases were known originally for their adverse effects rather than their useful qualities'[edit]

It's written in the article: 'Coal and natural gases were known originally for their adverse effects rather than their useful qualities'

It comes strange to me that even Coal was not know for its useful qualities! --79.11.210.175 (talk) 07:32, 17 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Well spotted. I think it was more a case of poor grammar. From the content, the paragraph was refering to gases, not to coal. I've updated it. Pyrotec (talk) 16:56, 17 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Baltimore[edit]

There is a very brief bit (I mean like one sentence) of information on a video for This Day in History 2/17, if anyone is interested. It could be used as a reference along with a date for Baltimore being "the first city in the US to illuminate its streets." MagnoliaSouth (talk) 13:24, 17 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

How are they lit?[edit]

There is something further up this talk page about automation, but this needs to be incorporated into the article with sources. I came to this talk page to ask about the modern-day gas lamps that have been preserved in some places. I wondered if someone had to go out and light them every night, which seemed unlikely. If they are lit automatically by a sparker thing like on a gas cooker, or something, does this mean all modern gas lamps are wired up electrically? This information needs to go in the article. Beorhtwulf (talk) 16:59, 23 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Illuminating gas" redirects to here?[edit]

This should probably get its own article at some point.... if anyone wants to take up the cause. -- DMahalko (talk) 18:11, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"Illuminating gas" is a rather historic term, so I've redirected it to History of manufactured gas, which has coverage better focused on the subject. The target article is fairly extensive (longer than the article here, and better referenced), so it deserves the notice. Reify-tech (talk) 14:01, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

wording is strange[edit]

"The development of alternating current power transmission a few years later by George Westinghouse, William Stanley, Jr., Nikola Tesla, Oliver B. Shallenberger, and others, solved the voltage and distance problem by using high transmission line voltages, and transformers that contained no moving parts and required no maintenance. This finally spelled the end for widespread usage of gas lighting.[7]"

required no maintenance? doesn't everything require some maintenance in some degree?

how about required little maintenance in comparison the older DC verisions.

or something along those lines. sorry I'm terrible at wording things. Quiet Wanderer (talk) 18:56, 1 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I've clarified the text, added Wikilinks, and started cleaning up the photos and page layout. Reify-tech (talk) 20:15, 1 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Overhaul of article[edit]

I've reworked the images in the article, by placing ones that are actually somewhat relevant next to the text of the article. I've moved all the other images to a new Gallery section. I've also found a number of new images from Wikimedia Commons and placed them to illustrate points made in the text, or just added them to the Gallery. I'll continue refining the selections as I have time.

The section on "Theatrical use" was lacking any images whatsoever. I was able to find a single diagram of limelighting, but nothing else in spite of doing a number of searches. Any help finding relevant images would be appreciated.

Also, the section on "Theatrical use" is lengthy and self-contained enough to be spun off as an independent article. It has its own idiosyncratic referencing style, and reads like a separate article that was simply dropped in. However, its removal will make it even more apparent how much the rest of the article needs more references. Reify-tech (talk) 14:17, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This article is USELESS in one of key aspects[edit]

There is nothing about how actually gas lighting has worked (gas-cylinders, piping through the walls from them to the lantern, if it hanged by the house, or if the lanters was standalone pole, then whether the piping or gas-cylinders were used, when it was switched from gas-cylinders to gas pipeline system), and how exactly gas was mass produced, whether it was compressed and since when (describing a single experiment on how tiny bit of gas was produced of tiny bit of coal is nothing). 37.144.72.87 (talk) 16:01, 4 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Unencyclopedic tone[edit]

"Gas was distributed throughout the whole theater so, how did the system actually work? Step one..."

Aside from the fact that no "step two" is ever arrives, rhetorical questions in articles seem more conversational than literary.

--23.119.204.117 (talk) 21:24, 4 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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