Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Campus Atheists and Secular Humanists

This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record.
The result of the debate was delete. Tony Sidaway|Talk 14:42, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Campus Atheists and Secular Humanists[edit]

Atheist student group at the University of Minnesota. A VfD tag was added but then improperly removed the next day by another editor because a vote page wasn't created. I abstain from voting because I personally know one of the former group presidents listed in the article. Postdlf 20:06, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Delete. The U of M has about a billion student groups. This is one of them. Nothing in the article explains why it's important to the University community or to atheism/humanism at large – it's just a big puffed-up history piece with far too many redlinks. android↔talk 20:40, Apr 10, 2005 (UTC)
Delete Not notable Dsmdgold 02:22, Apr 11, 2005 (UTC)
Abstain because I have been involved with the group, but to respond to android: the U of M has many student groups (over a thousand are listed but almost all of those are defunct, so a reliable estimate is difficult), but this is one of the oldest and best established, as well as one of the most vocal in local media. It is also one of the very few (~20) that receive direct annual funding from the University. Also, nationwide, it is one of the largest and most notable student freethought groups - in fact, it could even be counted among the most notable American local freethought groups altogether. CASH deserves an article not by a raw calculus of its size, but by a more nuanced examination of it relative position within its unique and certainly articleworthy movement (perhaps the solution to "too many redlinks" would be to create new articles, not delete them). Your suggestions for improvement belong on the article's Talk page, not a VfD. --Epistaxis 06:28, Apr 11, 2005 (UTC)
Delete NN student group. Radiant _* 07:21, Apr 11, 2005 (UTC)
Weak delete, student group whose notability hasn't reached WP standards in my view after reading Epistaxis' reasoning. I'd have to see several citations in nationwide publications before I'd change my vote. Every campus has a number of groups whose members think they're changing the world but actually don't displace a butterfly at the edge of the quad. This vote isn't from a religious person, by the way. Barno 19:47, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- There is no claim that the article subject thinks it causes world change, just the hope of some level of change. The lack of world change the article subject affects is not a valid judgement on the notability of the article. Tell me about the world change attributed to Ekans. Mikepjones
Delete, student organisations are not inherently notable, this one soes not apper to be either.--nixie 04:35, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Keep, I am the creator of the article, clearly I think it belongs here. The voters for deletion cite NN as their rationale. Wikipedia:Importance lists 7 categories that include NN topics:

It is patent nonsense The article is sensible.
It is original research There are no theories involved.
It is unverifiable All facts listed are, in fact, on record at the University of Minnesota.
It is uninformative The article is full of information.
It is unexpandable The article is well beyond a stub and still has much potential for expansion.
The subject is of potential interest to only a small numebr of people (e.g. 100 people) There are 850 people on our mailing list. We are contacted by the largest student-run and written college newspaper, the Minnesota Daily, several times throughout the year. As far as can be determined, we are the oldest college freethought organization in existence. Members of our organization are leaders and even founders of national freethought organizations.
It does not otherwise belong in Wikipedia This is another list of reasons, none of which, I feel, apply to the article.

I challenge the voters for deletion to come up with more than suggestions for improvement (read: not reasons for deletion), and the unfounded "NN" (see above) or "student group" (not a reason for deletion). Otherwise, it seems you are guilty of mere ideological deletion fanaticism. In other words, many of these arguments for deletion are "Not Notable". Shall we delete them? Mikepjones 21:02, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

- Note: user has 25 units, by far the most of which to this article or VfD.
  - Don't bite the newbies. Also, this has changed somewhat, as I'm finding more topics of which I am knowledgable. Mikepjones 21:21, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Comment: the 850 people on your mailing list aren't necessarily all interested. I'm on a lot of mailing lists for groups I couldn't care less about, let alone want to read about in Wikipedia. —Wahoofive | Talk 00:13, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I mean, really, the 100-person standard means 100 people might want to read about the topic in an encyclopedia. Using the mailing-list level of interest, every organization, and indeed, pretty much every human being on earth meets the 100-person standard. —Wahoofive | Talk 00:28, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Comment: Wikipedia:Importance is not official policy, as the bright yellow box at the top readly says. --cesarb 17:33, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

- I am simply citing precendent. If it is not useful or applicable to the conversation, as you imply, then all non-notable charges are as useless. Mikepjones 21:21, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Delete. Random student group. Wile E. Heresiarch 03:05, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Keep, this is a topic that is potentially of interest to ~40,000 students at this institution. Deletion would serve no useful purpose.
- Unsigned comment by User:65.25.219.227; IP's second edit. Postdlf 23:05, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Delete - notable only to people at Univ. of Minnesota, who already have websites and guides to their student groups. FreplySpang (talk) 16:42, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Keep Organization represents grassroots group dedicated to topic of national interest. 69.170.17.193 7:48 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.