Talk:Myst (series)

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Good articleMyst (series) has been listed as one of the Video games good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Featured topic starMyst (series) is the main article in the Myst series series, a featured topic. This is identified as among the best series of articles produced by the Wikipedia community. If you can update or improve it, please do so.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
November 30, 2008Good article nomineeListed
February 12, 2009Featured topic candidatePromoted
Current status: Good article

Untitled[edit]

Backstory[edit]

I think that this page's Backstory is duplicated in the D'ni History page (especially since I used the DRC section from there to complete this page). As such, I will move any information not contained there but is here to there and remove it from here. (How's that for convoluted?)

Anyway, I will put the most recent version of the Backstory section here if someone want's to restore for a good reason, but I will remove it after doing so.

The D'ni history (rightfully) does not contain information about Exile or Revelation. I think that information would be worthwhile in this article, as well as basic details of all the other games. What do you think? The Myst games are, after all, about Atrus and his family - not about D'ni (not until Uru & EoA anyway). --Baryonic Being 13:59, 18 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Backstory 2[edit]

The D'ni live in a great underground city for about 10,000 years, having the ability to Write books that can take their user to another Age, or world. The D'ni empire falls around the year 1740 when a woman, Anna, comes down into the city from the surface and marries a D'ni, Aitrus. Veovis, a conservative D'ni lord, becomes furious about this, and another lord, A'Gaeris (aka The Philosopher), destroys the D'ni city--and most of the life in it--with a huge poison cloud (Myst: The Book of Ti'ana; Myst: The Book of D'ni). Anna and her 8 year old son, Gehn, escape to the Cleft, which is near the volcano over the D'ni cavern.

Gehn grows up, and later his wife, Keta, dies while giving birth to their son, Atrus. Miserable and unable to cope, Gehn runs away to the D'ni caves, leaving his son in Anna's care. Some 14 years later, Gehn comes back and takes Atrus away from Anna to teach him how to Write Ages. Eventually, Gehn locks Atrus in the K'veer basement (the last area you visit in the Myst game). Atrus finds the Riven book, goes there, meets Katran, and marries her. Atrus finds out that Katran and Anna wrote the Age of Myst together, and the newlywed couple goes there to trap Gehn in Riven by opening up the Star Fissure (Myst: The Book of Atrus). Atrus looses the Myst book in the fissure, and the book eventually comes to Earth, where you, the Stranger/player, find it and use it to go to Myst Island, where you find Atrus' library.

In the library you find a red and a blue book, which are the linking books to Sirrus' and Achenar's Prison Ages (Spire and Haven respectively). On the brothers' request, you collect the red and blue pages, and as you proceed, the brothers each tell you that the other brother is guilty of burning the books in the Myst library. After you collect five pages, they tell you the pattern for unlocking a secret hideout behind the fireplace of the library. Sirrus tells you to bring from there the final red page, but not the blue one; Achenar tells you the exact opposite. However, they both tell you not to touch the green book. If you open the green book, you see Atrus in the K'veer basement, and if you bring him the white page for the Myst book, he goes back to Myst and burns the red and blue books, thus imprisoning his two sons forever (Myst). He then asks you to go to Riven to save Katran from Gehn, who has gone mad and is trying to convert Riven into another D'ni civilization. Once you save Katran and capture Gehn, then you return home by taking the Star Fissure (Riven).

While you are back on Earth, Atrus & company abandon Myst and build a new home, Tomahna, in the desert near the Cleft. They gather all the D'ni survivors that they can find and put them in an age called Releeshan. When you come to Tomahna, you witness someone, Saavedro, steal the Releeshan book from Atrus to get revenge on Atrus' sons for destroying his own world, Narayan and take it to his new home world, J'nanin. You save Releeshan, help Saavedro return to the main part of Narayan, and go back to Tomahna (Exile).

Years later, Sirrus and Achenar somehow escape from their prison worlds and kidnap Yeesha (Atrus' daughter). You save her from being fatally possessed by Sirrus, who tries to do so in order to fool Atrus into teaching him the Art of Writing Age Books (Revelation].

In 1987, D'ni, The Art, and D'ni's Ages were rediscovered by a human, John "Fightin' Branch" Loftin. Elias Zandi, a friend of Loftin, founded the D'ni Restoration Foundation, with hopes of restoring the D'ni cavern. When he died in 1996, he left his son Jeff the land on which The Cleft is located. The task of restoring D'ni was left with Dr. Richard Watson, who founded the D'ni Restoration Council (DRC). The DRC continued its restoration effort steadfastly, and opened the cavern in November 2003. However, the DRC was quickly losing funding, and in February 2004, three short months after allowing the general public down, the restoration effort was cancelled indefinitely.

An excellent reference on the books and games, with book (chapter) summaries, biographies, dramatis personae, game plots, etc. is Tales of the D'ni.

Needs more information[edit]

It seems as if the Myst articles have been abused lately, having cut out articles for Yeesha, the Bahro, and many D'ni subtopics. I'll try to bring back-up. 64.126.54.56 (talk) 08:29, 23 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

realMyst[edit]

Perhaps a more appropriate image for realMyst is in order? A better representation would be a screen shot, perhaps a duplicate of one of the screen shots for the original already in the article? Rehevkor (talk) 00:25, 6 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Revamp proposal[edit]

In an effort to consolidate all the Myst info and promote it all, I propose merging all the soundtracks into their relevant game articles, merging all characters into a main characters list, and merging universe info into a 'canon' article; my proposed changes can be seen at User:David Fuchs/workshop. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs (talk) 21:28, 26 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Absolutely, David is the most active current creator of Featured Articles, and if we consolidate this information in the way he suggests, the Myst articles will become a string of featured articles. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 21:59, 26 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I think it's a huge shame that you started merging soundtracks (i.e. the Riven soundtrack) before actually guaging concencus - there's absolutely no reason why you couldn't have waited. Having said that, I think your proposal has merit. The characters suggestion, however, I think needs some work. Someone like Atrus, in my opinion, deserves and is notable enough for an article on his own. Sirrus and Achenor could probably share an article, and it could certainly be argued that Yeesha is article-worthy (what with her being the centre of the URU fanchise). All minor characters -> one article, absolutely. All characters -> one article, no. TalkIslander 22:05, 26 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'm going with what the sources are. Atrus might be able to have his own article, but I haven't been able to find enough information on development/reception of Myst's characters to merit their own articles (going with fiction guidelines and notability policies.) What we can do is simply migrate all the info over to Characters of Myst, then depending on sources that appear pop characters in an out. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs (talk) 22:21, 26 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
That all seems reasonable to me. I'll try to lend a hand where I can when I have time. Islander, its generally been established that spinouts should first cover the concept of the characters within a series, and then branch out from there for individual characters when there are sufficient sources to warrant that. Usually this works in reverse in practise as fans created the individual pages long ago, resulting in merges more than creation. Take a look at WP:VG's FA and GA articles on characters, we've got some really good examples over there on how best to approach characters within a game or series, with information on overall design and reception. -- Sabre (talk) 22:32, 26 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Also, to echo the above comment, from the searching I've done so far it looks as though none of the soundtracks (at the very least the first few) have any more info than cannot be summarized in the main article, so it makes more sense to just merge. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs (talk) 23:34, 26 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Myst reader merge[edit]

Also, suggesting here that the first three books be merged into a 'The Myst Reader' collection. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs (talk) 19:45, 5 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps you should merge in the fourth novel as well and do a "Novels of Myst" article as that seems to be a stub as well. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 22:28, 5 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I was thinking about that, but the Myst Reader is a definite book collection, so it works as a whole from a editing standpoint as well as reality-based. As the Marrim book hasn't come out, I'd want to wait until after publication to see what will happen with it. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs (talk) 13:06, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Since it's still a tiny stub, that two-three sentences could perhaps go into this article instead under novels until we have more information on it. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 16:29, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
That's also a good idea. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs (talk) 16:42, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image[edit]

Looking at the image on this page, it strikes me as being somewhat tacky. For a start, it's pointlessly animated - a simple jpeg of the first frame of the current picture would be much better. Having said that, I don't really like the image at all, but am at somewhat of a loss as to what could replace it. Ideas?... TalkIslander 16:46, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I put that one up as a placeholder, because I wanted to make a graphic with the linking book having a flythrough animation like in the original games. As to what to put there instead, I've got no clue. The games don't have a set typeface or logo we can use, as in Age of Empires or Halo (series). Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs (talk) 17:07, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The typeface for the titles is pretty consistent between all the games. I've found an appropriate image, I've uploaded it. I've moved the gif image down a bit and replaced the identical non-free one in use on Myst canon. -- Sabre (talk) 17:25, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Stub sections[edit]

I reverted a recent "undo" edit. The editor believed that we should leave out the {{expand-section}} tag because it's obvious that it requires expansion. I believe that we should keep the placeholder sections in the article with stub tags so that people will feel more encouraged to contribute to those sections. Also, it is less likely that the article will end up with non-standard section names or confusion about what the article's purpose is. I also left the list of soundtracks there for now, because at least that gives people the information they might be looking for if they're looking at the music section. Once the actual text is written, the list can be changed, but for now it is a useful placeholder. Thoughts? — OranL (talk) 01:43, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I reverted them because those tags are way out of control - they are so obtrusive and they interfere so much with readership that they need to be reserved for important functions, such as cautioning readers about possible POV. Just saying "somebody else needs to expand this" is not, IMHO, reason enough to clutter up the article with them. If you think it's really, really important that the sections are expanded then you can, of course, expand them. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 01:51, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The problem is that I don't know enough about these subjects to add to these sections. Someone does, though, and maybe the ambox will grab their attention and get them to contribute.
I think that since Wikipedia is a work-in-progress, if things need to be pointed out for cleanup, than that is acceptable. Personally, an empty section with just a heading would confuse me more as a reader than would a box explaining how to help expand it. As for removing empty sections completely, I think that most people feel more comfortable editing something than creating new content, and having the section already existent, while still requiring them to create content, may help guide their efforts and make them feel more comfortable when adding something. — OranL (talk) 02:16, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
OK, since you feel strongly about it. (Usually when these boxes are removed, nobody even notices - a comment about how they are generally useless litter.) But I would urge you to think twice about "nag tags", which (in my opinion, of course) over-emphasize wikipedia's role as a place for us editors to play and leave each other notes, thus harming its role as a place for people to come and find information. - 10:35, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
I think you have a good point, and people should be able to read through without being disrupted by the boxes, but I also like to see Wikipedia get improved by people who might not know about how it works. I feel that a good way to help out is to leave the boxes on the page, because not only does it alert readers to the request for more information, but also it adds the page to a specific category requesting cleanup. What if instead of a box, there was a one line sentence in italics explaining a request for information (similar in appearance to {{main}})? Is that a good compromise, or could we just use hidden comments to request specific edits? — OranL (talk) 19:51, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
We used to have one of them, that was exactly what {{sectstub}} used to be. It was deleted after a rather quiet AfD, and redirected to the obstructive {{expand-section}}. There may be a case for deletion review, there was never any mention on the template that it was being discussed for deletion. -- Sabre (talk) 20:01, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I don't really care if they're there or not, I'll be expanding it when I can after the main games get FA, shouldnt be more than six to eight weeks... if they're gone before then I don't mind, it's whatever everyone else wants. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs (talk) 20:05, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
What happened to that template? I can't seem to find the TfD discussion. — OranL (talk) 00:08, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Don't hold your breath - a lot of Myst articles have recently got the chop without any form of discussion or consensus finding... TalkIslander 00:11, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Nevermind, I found it here. I think that maybe we should ask if the functionality of the {{sectstub}} can be merged with {{expand-section}}. Perhaps it could have a variable switch such as "inconspicuous=yes" that would switch it from using an {{ambox}} to using the one-line italic style. Does anyone here think that the one-line {{expand-section}} would be good to have? — OranL (talk) 00:16, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
→Islander: None were deleted that didn't deserve it. I'm watching all of the articles, and I'm a staunch defender of deleting articles that have a purpose. All the articles that have been deleted so far have either been, 1) Not appropriate for Wikipedia 1 2 or, 2) Merged with a larger article. — OranL (talk) 00:22, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
"I'm a staunch defender of deleting articles that have a purpose"???? I hope you left out a word there ... - DavidWBrooks (talk) 00:42, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I think he did. As I noted above, I'm running a workshop out of my userspace with the goal to reduce and improve Myst to about 12 articles. Part of it was half the stuff didn't meet notability, the other half was that it made organizational sense to stick things together which might be notable but which would languish as stubs otherwise- such as D'ni. It still needs cleanup, but we're already much better off. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs (talk) 00:51, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Your efforts are most definitely commendable, but that aside, articles on Wikipedia are never deleted without a) meeting the speedy delete criteria, b) being proposed for deletion, or c) going through a deletion/merge/whatever discussion (with one or two exceptions, like 'office actions'). I personally am very uncomfortable with articles being deleted without going through one of the above processes - it kinda undermines the systems already in place. Those with a sysop flag should not be deleting articles that don't qualify for speedy without first asking the community, even if it seems fairly obvious. I don't know how far through the process you've got, but I'd ask you to follow standard protocols for any articles that you still has 'marked' for deletion. TalkIslander 00:55, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
To my knowledge, I've only outright deleted three articles at most; the rest have been cut and pasted into larger article (like Myst canon) before being rewritten (most of it hasn't, at the moment). The only articles where I haven't really bothered merging in material has been the soundtracks, as for the ones I've completed (Myst, Riven, and Exile) the articles had more content then the soundtracks did, so I just copied over the track listing. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs (talk) 01:12, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
OK, to be clear, when I say 'deleting', I use it as an umbrella term to mean 'outright deleting', 'merging and deleting the original article', and anything else which involves the deletion of an article in some form or another. The fact that information has been deleted from the soundtrack articles without AfD's is, in my mind, pretty dire, regardless of the likely outcome of said AfD's. I'm in half a mind to restore them, after them having been wrongfully deleted. TalkIslander 01:17, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
By all means, do so then, or just save us some time and open up another discussion page below here and ask for broader input, if that's your boat. I'm simply being bold, and seeing as how it was just me and Oran talking about improving this stuff in the beginning, I was operating in a vacuum anyhow. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs (talk) 01:20, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Those articles should only be restored if you can make a case that their content overflows from their respective section that it deserves its own articles. As their does not appear to be a superabundance of audio info from the games, it is best to have several FA's with full audio sections instead of stubby little articles that say very little. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 05:23, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
My apologies about the "I'm a staunch defender of deleting articles that have a purpose." I was very tired, and the sentence made sense to me... What I mean is that I defend the articles that have a purpose, so they don't get deleted. In any case, Fuchs and I have already discussed deleting articles without going through the process, and he hasn't done it since then. Discussing it again now is kind of superfluous and counter-productive, using time that could be better spent fixing these articles. — OranL (talk) 16:01, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
My appologies, I didn't realise it had been dealt with before. So long as it doesn't happen again, I'll certainly drop it ;). As for "I'm a staunch defender of deleting articles that have a purpose.", I just thought you might be bit rouge ;P TalkIslander 20:40, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Anonymous IP reverts[edit]

Regarding the articles Gehn, Atrus, and Katran (Myst): Someone's messing with these articles after we've already discussed merging them. There's also a new discussion for Katran because of these reverts. The editor that is performing these reverts needs to explain their reasoning here, and if not, I propose that we make these pages semi-protected, and change them back to redirects. — OranL (talk) 16:32, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

For the record, the discussion that you cite was not a discussion as to whether or not they should be merged, but a discussion as to whether or not a discussion had taken place. If you follow. If this one IP continues reverting without discussion, then this one IP should be dealt with - give me a shout, and I'll happily oblige. However, whilst it's only one IP that's not discussing changes, the articles don't qualify for semiprotection. TalkIslander 16:40, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Please see the merge discussions on the pages Talk: Katran (Myst) #Merger proposal, Talk: Gehn #Actual merge, and Talk: Atrus #Merge. If the articles get merged, I believe that the talk pages should remain as a record of what conspired. — OranL (talk) 20:59, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image copyright problem with Image:Myst opening.png[edit]

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Merge in Dni language and Pyst[edit]

Resolved

These are stub articles relating to the world of Myst and its reaction from popular culture, and would bulk up this article and eliminate two stub articles. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 02:33, 14 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yeppers. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs (talk) 03:03, 14 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'd support both of those, especially the d'ni language article. It's probably in trouble on its own. I might even recommend it for deletion. But a merge is a good compromise, and improves the articles collectively. Randomran (talk) 04:46, 14 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm, "Pyst" looks like it might be able to potentially stand on its own, its not everyday that a fan made game gets coverage in a major newspaper. That suggests to me that it could have other sources, even if it may be somewhat difficult to find them. As for D'ni language, it probably should be merged, but I'd like to see a proper section dedicated to it in the series article if possible (stick it as a subsection of "development"). A redirect and a couple of sentences saying "oh, they made a language for it as well" doesn't seem appropriate. A section containing a better and briefer overview than the current version, along with the free images used in that article, would be reasonable. -- Sabre (talk) 12:26, 14 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
There's some reasonable refs in the article as it is, and I know I found one or two good ones on LexisNexis which I have to find again, so that shouldn't be an issue. I'm not sure it could function independently as a subsection, but could definitely be addressed in development with some depth. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs (talk) 16:33, 14 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'd prefer to leave Pyst on its own, as I think it has enough references and material to justify a standalone article and it is obviously not actually part of the Myst series. A mention and link is appropriate, of course. — brighterorange (talk) 22:43, 9 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Merge Mysterium[edit]

Instead of all-out deleting the Mysterium page (as Rehevkor is wont to do), perhaps it should be merged here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.249.90.91 (talk) 00:04, 4 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There's no point to merging content that is non-notable. --Der Wohltempierte Fuchs (talk) 01:09, 4 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Merge (cutting it down to a few sentences) makes perfect sense - this is an article about Myst series, so a subsection noting that it has produced an annual gathering would be most appropriate. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 01:17, 4 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Unless the annual gathering is notable, it's not actually worthy of a mention. --Der Wohltempierte Fuchs (talk) 02:15, 4 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If it has run that many years in a row - and it's big enough to get a group discount at the hotel, as the Website claims - it's certainly notable enough for a mention. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 02:27, 4 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Dreamforge and the never-happened-game?[edit]

Around the time of Exile, development of a realtime 3d game was started by a company called Dreamforge. As far as I understand, the game was supposed to become Myst 3, but for some reason (it took to long?) they asked Presto to work on what eventually became Exile, which they had to finish very quickly. Instead, the Dreamforge game was supposed to be Myst 4. Eventually however, the project was cancelled completely. As far as I understand, this was due to low quality.

There is very little information available on this game, since the game was never even announced. Essentially, all we have is some of the developers using the works in their portfolios, and someone on the Exile team spilling the beans on a fan forum. But I think it could make for an interesting note in this article.

Here are some of the images and links to more info: http://www.mysterium.ch/revelation/dreamforge/dreamforge_e.html

90.233.16.26 (talk) 07:50, 25 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That info is covered in Myst IV: Revelation. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs (talk) 12:43, 25 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"This practice was practiced"[edit]

(in the opening section). Can you rephrase it? The Other Saluton (talk) 17:08, 21 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, you can! Go ahead. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 18:23, 21 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know which option would sound the most natural, I'm not a native speaker. The Other Saluton (talk) 09:06, 22 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
OK. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 12:54, 22 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Pronunciation of "D'ni"[edit]

The article under reference 1 ([1]) says that the word is pronounced like "dunny". Where is a citation for "/dəˈniː/"? The Other Saluton (talk) 07:33, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

After Riven, the pronunciation was modified to /dəˈniː/.[2] In the original Myst, The D'ni were actually known as the Dunny (referencing an earlier game), hence the logical pronounciation. In later games all the characters took to the other way of pronouncing the word, but the main character Atrus was persistent in using the old style. This explains it better. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 12:44, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Science fiction[edit]

Wouldnt this game be considered a science fiction adventure game? its backstory sounds an awful lot like a science fantasy or science fiction premise, even if the action is not typical of a scifi action game. I find it odd that no one has categorized it as such, here. Is there a reason for not describing it as such?Mercurywoodrose (talk) 05:58, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No sources I've come across have discussed sci-fi aspects. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 15:50, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Asking for a partial rather than full revert[edit]

I recently edited the article with multiple corrections, including putting quotation marks around the franchise name rather than italicizing it. Style guides, including our own, recommend this practice. My edits were reverted in whole for the quotes/italics changes alone, so I ask that the reverting editor, David Fuchs, or an uninvolved editor, restore my other corrections. Minus my mistake of “The story of ‘Myst’ story…” —Frungi (talk) 23:42, 2 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I restored my edits myself. And then forgot to say so here for a day and a half. —Frungi (talk) 04:43, 20 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Requested move 22 November 2016[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved - there is clear concensus against the move (non-admin closure) Fuortu (talk) 13:56, 29 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

– Series has more than 3 video game articles now per WP:NCVG, set this page to be the primary series article. Neverrainy (talk) 03:24, 22 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Steel1943 (talk) 03:34, 22 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Neverrainy: This request has been moved to full discussion. Steel1943 (talk) 03:36, 22 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose While it technically meets the NCVG aspects Myst the video game is much more well known than the series, and its more the first game that has the largest impact on the game industry. --MASEM (t) 05:22, 22 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Masem, also worth noting this article gets vastly more pageviews than the series does. Nohomersryan (talk) 13:23, 22 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • As with the above, Myst the game is clearly the primary topic in this instance. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 16:45, 26 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Requested move 8 February 2018[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: consensus not to move the pages at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 05:42, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

– per WP:NCVGDAB #6.1 If a video game series has a naming conflict solely with the first game in the series (e.g., Final Fantasy), the series page should reside at the primary name if the series possesses a minimum of 3 video game articles as well as at least one other unrelated video game or related media item.. The article about the franchise should occupy the primary topic, as there are multiple video games in the series, the related Uru spin-off game and MMO, and a related book series. Netoholic @ 20:19, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose Discussed and rejected just 18 months earlier (see higher section). Myst the game is much better known than the series. --Masem (t) 20:23, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
WP:NCVGDAB #6.1 is very clear on the handling of this. The relative popularity of first game is not mentioned as a factor to consider per the guideline. -- Netoholic @ 20:34, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree that it's "very clear"; it doesn't mention popularity at all. "Clear" would be if it explicitly excluded popularity from consideration. An Owl Called Josh 🦉 (talk) 22:30, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
WP:NCVGDAB #6.1 is very clear on the handling of this. Mistakes of the past can and should be corrected. -- Netoholic @ 20:34, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
That's fine and well if it was a mistake, but it wasn't. The game Myst was infinitely more successful and popular than any of its other game's or series. All these RM's where you don't really understand the context are getting to be a bit much here. Please slow down and do a bit of research on the subjects rather than just blindly copy/pasting Wiki alphabet soup. Sergecross73 msg me 20:38, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Isn't the first title of a series usually the more popular one? If I'm wrong, then go ahead and add "... unless the first game is REALLY popular" to the guideline section I cited. -- Netoholic @ 20:41, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I was alluding to WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, since it apparently needs to be spelled out for you. (This was clearly cited in the prior discussion too.) Sergecross73 msg me 20:44, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Well now WP:NCVGDAB #6.1 just seems arbitrary and violates the principle of WP:CONSISTENT. I mean, if a series is WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, then why all the gotcha conditions like needing 3 games, related media, etc. to make such a move? And if a first game is primary, then why does the 6.1 exception even exist? -- Netoholic @ 20:57, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oh please, there's always going to be exceptions and special cases. It can't be helped. It's an exceptionally rare case for a first entry of a video game to be a huge, cultural thing, while the rest of them hardly make a blip on the radar. Sergecross73 msg me 21:08, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, if the first games don't make a blip, then why can't the series articles be moved as primary, regardless of the number of games, related media, etc.? -- Netoholic @ 21:11, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The game was huge. It was the primary topic. The later games were not huge. Thus the series is not the primary topic. Anything else you're talking about is outside of the scope of this discussion for this topic. Sergecross73 msg me 21:19, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose There has not been any evidence advanced that the previous discussion was a "mistake".ZXCVBNM (TALK) 20:36, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
WP:NCVGDAB #6.1 is very clear on the handling of this. No justification given as to why to ignore it. Unless you think we should just ignore the guideline in other instances, too? -- Netoholic @ 20:38, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
WP:IAR is the justification. The rules are ignored if ignoring them would make more sense, such as in the case where a game is vastly more famous than its series.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 21:14, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment above seems to demonstrate that the video game naming conventions are a bit of a mess. In ictu oculi (talk) 22:19, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose and close per WP:SNOW. If the game-specific guidelines say a relatively obscure series should be at the plain title instead of the original well-known game, they should be ignored for violating policy and broad naming guidelines (specifically WP:COMMONNAME and WP:PRIMARYTOPIC). --В²C ☎ 23:08, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, as in this particular case the fist game Myst is undoubtedly the primary topic over the series (notably, some of the installments, like Riven and Uru, didn't use the Myst name). However, that line of WP:NCVGDAB requiring "at least one other unrelated video game or related media item" needs to go. It conflicts with the general disambiguation guidelines as well as common sense - the only real consideration should be whether the game or the series is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC.--Cúchullain t/c 14:53, 9 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    • I know this discussion is still open but it is SNOWing, but moreso, I have no idea where that line came from because it is BS. (It might relate to when to call something a "franchise" over a "series" with the 3 game number.) I have boldly rewritten that to reflect what we've said on this page, on the BioShock page, and a few other notable examples - if the first game is much more known than the series, then it should be the primary topic. --Masem (t) 15:03, 9 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
      • I reverted the 'bold' edit. Feel free to start a discussion at WP:NCVG. (Personally, and I think broadly, people get really irritated when the exception becomes the rule.) --Izno (talk) 16:42, 9 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
        • Started discussion there. --Masem (t) 17:18, 9 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. NCVGDAB seems to be the issue here as a guideline that conflicts with wider best practices for naming. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 19:06, 9 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - Regardless of whether the NCVGDAB guideline should be changed or not, it does not override WP-wide policies like WP:PRIMARYTOPIC.--Martin IIIa (talk) 18:21, 10 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

External links modified (February 2018)[edit]

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