Talk:Jim Moran

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Good articleJim Moran has been listed as one of the Social sciences and society good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
April 11, 2010Good article nomineeListed


What Did Moran Do About the Draft and Vietnam, the Two Biggest Issues of His Youth?[edit]

The article makes no mention whatever of the biggest two issues for any person Moran's age, the draft and Vietnam. This is relevant because Moran now proclaims his interest in public service, so presumably Moran was interested in public service when it was very difficult and very dangerous in Vietnam. In other words, the historical context is essential for a real biography.

Comment by sjorford[edit]

Well, I've merged the two articles together, but it looks like this could do with some NPOVing... sjorford →•← 10:40, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)

CAIR support[edit]

While there was a link to a collection of quotes, including from Moran, in support of CAIR, there was absolutely nothing to indicate that this is in any way a matter of controversy, and certainly not to justify the insinuation of terrorist ties. I've removed the section, unless there's some other reason to attach importance to his comment. --Michael Snow 00:43, 16 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

tendentious stuff about Jewish communal activity related to Iraq war[edit]

There is too much arguing about the merits of Moran's claims and it's tendentious: "According to a Gallup Poll, the vast majority of Jewish Americans oppose the war, even the minority of Republican Jews." A poll when?

"Jewish American opposition to the war has been consistent even before the invasion, and they have been more strongly opposed to the war than any other major religious group.[3]" The footnote does not bear out the claim.

"Studies conducted by former CIA political analysts suggest however, that there has been Jewish effort to supress Jewish opposition to the war.[7]" This is just batsh*t crazy. Are there any grown-ups around who can clean up this page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.134.221.7 (talk) 22:44, 7 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Israeli lobby section takes over WP page[edit]

Can the editors who have been contributing to this page explain why there is more text devoted to this single issue than there is in the rest of this elected public official's page COMBINED? This is WAY over the top in terms of balance. Thank you, Jgui 17:06, 15 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

MuzzleWatch Friday, Jun 22nd, 2007
Hasbara Fellowships, a program started in “conjunction with Israel’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs” to help students become “effective pro-Israel activists” is actively recruiting paid fellows and supporters to join in the effort. From the May Hasbara Fellowship newsletter:
Everyone knows about Wikipedia, a place to go to get the ‘real’ scoop. How often do you use Wikipedia to look up subjects you know little about? Now imagine how often other people use Wikipedia to look up subjects related to Israel.
Wikipedia is not an objective resource but rather an online encyclopedia that any one can edit. The result is a website that is in large part is controlled by ‘intellectuals’ who seek re-write the history of the Arab-Israeli conflict. These authors have systematically yet subtly rewritten key passages of thousands of Wikipedia entries to portray Israel in a negative light.
You have the opportunity to stop this dangerous trend! If you are interested in joining a team of Wikipedians to make sure Israel is presented fairly and accurately, please contact director@israelactivism.com for details!
Nbauman 01:46, 16 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

1991 Altercation[edit]

Should a passage be included in the article that details the incident in early 1991 where Moran had a physical altercation with reporter J. Michael Waller in the Longworth House Office Building?

72.82.210.167 (talk) 08:48, 16 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Done. --AndersW (talk) 21:45, 13 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Redistribution of wealth comments[edit]

"Now in the last seven years we have had the highest corporate profit ever in American history. Highest corporate profit! We’ve had the highest productivity! The American worker has produced more per person at any time, but it hasn’t been shared, and that’s the problem because we have been guided by a republican administration who believes in this simplistic notion that people who have wealth are entitled to keep it and they have an antipathy towards the means of redistributing wealth." [1] Surely there's going to be some controversy about this soon. Just a heads-up for when it ends up being notable. 74.94.21.101 (talk) 02:43, 7 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not a New Democrat[edit]

Moran is a member of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, the far left of the House. He cannot in any way be characterized as a New Democrat. This is not a NPOV article. DavidSteinle (talk) 14:05, 27 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

He is a member of both caucuses. -BLM Platinum (talk) 18:17, 25 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

PMA Group[edit]

The controversy regarding Moran and PMA Group should not be removed from Controversies just because he was cleared; the event still caused controversy and it belongs there. -BLM Platinum (talk) 05:27, 28 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Article issues[edit]

Thanks for working on this article. I think the article has sourcing and POV problems. A few observations in no special order:

  • the seperate criticism section is not necessary and gives the impression of imbalance, the issues can be integrated into the time in congress with approppriate weight
  • "Moran is generally supportive of illegal immigrants" - there are many vague formulations in the article - does he house them?
  • "while" should only be used when emphasising that two events occur at the same time, or when emphasising contrast. It shouldn't be used as an additive link
  • several style issues: "Capitalize the first letter of the first word and any proper nouns in headings, but leave the rest in lower case" per WP:HEAD
  • a lot of "also" and "along with" and all kinds of redundant words
  • the page uses "currently" and other words that age, should be, for example with elections, "as of January 2010 five people are running ..."
  • links in quotations need to be removed per MOS:QUOTE
  • quite a few things are attached unsourced to paragraphs
  • "strongly supports gay rights and gun control" - the "strongly" is POV or original research? something like that needs a citation and an explanation who thinks so (and the source should be a reliable source like a newspaper or another reliable source)
  • "had a mostly left leaning voting record, voting against the Federal Marriage Amendment, and the Iraq War in 2002" - the whole paragraph is POV, badly sourced, and reads like personal observation - and there are similar issues throughout
  • the content reads very incohesive, there is not a lot of biography there, and it reads like it's picked and chosen unsystematically with large periods of his time in congress and before congress uncovered
  • what makes sourcewatch.org a reliable source?
  • YouTube is used as a source for video - likely contributory copyright infringement per WP:ELNEVER
  • compared to the content before expansion there is good improvement but content about his time before Congress was removed as well

The page I believe needs lots of work and consideration to become a good article, especially since this is a biography of a living person and an active politician. As advice I would suggest looking at good or featured articles of politicians for inspiration for structure and composition. Best Hekerui (talk) 22:23, 2 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

economic issues - controversy related to bankruptcy legislation sponsorship and personal loans[edit]

Rep. Moran's 1998 introduction of bankruptcy legislation strongly supported by credit card lenders drew national media attention and federal investiagations. National-press-cited, NPOV discussion of this legislation and the personal loan that triggered the investigation was inserted in the 'budget and economy' section where prior discussion of bankruptcy positions was present. Please do not revert as 'not relevant to economic issues'. Any alternate proposals for locations and/or discussions on the merits of inclusion should be here on the Talk page 72.205.39.185 (talk) 04:49, 10 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I rightly said that it is not relevant to Moran's stance on the economy. I probably should not have gone and outright deleted it; but it absolutely does not belong in the political positions section. I've moved it to the "Alleged conflicts of interest". ~BLM Platinum (talk) 17:44, 10 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Jr., Sr., or "the II"?[edit]

I'm not really sure about Wikipedia's policy on this, as I see no mention of it in the manual of style; but Moran was originally referred to as Jr. in the lead section; but when I saw that his son was referred to as "James Jr.", I changed it to Sr. I turned out to be wrong about that, as the Congressional Directory refers to him as "Jr.". So if his father was a James, and his son is a James; then I think that referring to him in the lead section as "the II" is proper. If anybody knows the correct way of doing this, then please inform me. ~BLM Platinum (talk) 14:43, 12 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Jim Moran/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: –– Jezhotwells (talk) 14:23, 10 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Toolbox

I shall be reviewing this article against the Good Article criteria, following its nomination for Good Article status.

Checking against GA criteria[edit]

GA review (see here for criteria)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose): b (MoS):
    Dicks ceded his chairmanship of Moran's subcommittee to replace the recently deceased John Murtha as the chair of the Defense Appropriations Subcommittee. Can this be re-written? As it stands it is confusing as the committee wasn't "Moran's" when Dicks ceded the chairanship, it was Dicks'.  Done I rewrote it. –– Jezhotwells (talk) 15:23, 11 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    Moran's support for harsher bankruptcy law provisions and sponsorship of harsher bankruptcy legislation brought allegations in 2002 that his support came in return for financial favors by financial institutions which could benefit from such laws. two close uses of "harsher". Can you find another word for one of the instances?  Done
    In January 1998, one month before he introduced the legislation, credit card bank MBNA advocated that would restrict the ability of consumer debtors to declare bankruptcy. Better to say "... MBNA advocated that it would restrict ..."  Done
    Moran received a favorable debt consolidation loan from MBNA that allowed him to personally avoid bankruptcy due to credit card and stock market losses. Better would be "... that allowed him to avoid personal bankruptcy arising from credit card and stock market losses."  Done
    Moran voted for the Affordable Health Care for America Act, which passed on November 7, 2009; saying about the bill on his website that "The cost of doing nothing is simply too high for the American people to carry who today pay more than twice what people everywhere else on earth pay but yet live no longer nor healthier lives." Why is this quote italicised?  Done
    ''... he has expressed support for Public Education system, universal pre-Kindergarten... Why is Kindergarten Capitalised?  Done
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
    I fixed some links to WP:Disambiguations with this edit.[2] Please check that I got the right targets.
    I tagged one dead link, ref #8 [3].  Done
    I added a format note to ref #24 [4] as this video is only available in the US. I assume good faith for the content.
    ref #4 [5] needs properly formatting with publication date, and author. Consistent formatting is needed with publisher details, author and date if available. refs #6, 7, 8, 12, 15, 33, 37, 38, 41, 42, 43, 44, 46, 51, 52 need looking at for this issue.  Done I fixed several that you missed.
    All references appear to be to reliable sources, and support the cited statements.
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
    The article is broad and well focussed apart from Moran currently lives in a house overlooking the Potomac River in Arlington, Virginia. The house was previously owned by Najeeb Halaby, the father of Queen Noor, who was the fourth wife and widow of King Hussein of Jordan. Is the bit about the previous ownership of the house useful encyclopaedic information? I won't make this a deal-breaker, but it may be challenged by others, and would certainly be contested at WP:FAC if you took it there.
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:
  6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
    I added a caption to the infobox image
  7. Overall:
    Pass/Fail:
    This is nearly there. Please address the issues raised above and respond on this page, which I have watchlisted. On hold for seven days. –– Jezhotwells (talk) 16:09, 10 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    OK, a few issues left. –– Jezhotwells (talk) 15:23, 11 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    OK, thanks for your hard work. I am happy to list this as a good article. Congratulations! –– Jezhotwells (talk) 21:30, 12 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
About your point on the history of Moran's house: I think it is a notable part of the subject's personal life that they own a house formerly occupied by Georgian royalty. It certainly is open for debate, however. I just won't be the one to remove it. ~BLM Platinum (talk) 19:55, 10 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Well, he wasn't Georgian (or even Jordanian), he was an American of Syrian ancestry, and he wasn't nobility - you don't acquire that through step-relations - but I won't make it an issue. –– Jezhotwells (talk) 15:23, 11 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"Public service" comments[edit]

Testing out here, re-wording to use a more balanced approach, and to allow discussion thereof, before including in article.

Moran was heavily criticized on conservative websites for remarks he made at a local Democratic committee meeting where he said his 2010 opponent, Patrick Murray, "[hasn't] performed any kind of public service."[1] Murray is a retired U.S. Army colonel who served in the military for 24 years; "If that isn’t public service, I don’t know what is," said Barbara Hollingsworth of the Washington Examiner.[2][3] The context of Moran's statement is unclear in the short video and Moran responded with a press release commending his opponent's military service. [4]
How about revising the last sentence to read 'Moran responded with a press release commending his opponent's military service, while indicating that he used the phrase in relation to Murray not having engaged in "local civic engagement" and not having served in local office'. I think this is a fair summary of Moran's response, and readers can decide for themselves whether this response is credible. I don't think that the comment about the video is necessary at all. Again, readers can see this themselves. AndyTheGrump (talk) 16:07, 29 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Good wording, I'll switch it and place it in the article. --Habap (talk) 16:28, 29 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Temporary reflist[edit]

  1. ^ YouTube video
  2. ^ Rep. Moran: Serving in the military isn’t public service
  3. ^ Jim Moran Fires Back: Patrick Murray's "desperate attacks shameful and misinformed"
  4. ^ Moran commends opponent's military service

Neutrality Check[edit]

I'm trying to work my way through this article and deal with some of the weasel words and undue weight that it appears to be rife with, but in the meantime I'm also nominating it to be checked for neutrality. Arbor832466 (talk) 15:05, 16 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Can you give some specific examples of POV? NYyankees51 (talk) 16:02, 16 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
It's less a matter of the actual info that's in there and more bias as to what's included vs. excluded and the level of detail. The "Controversies" section, for example, obviously belongs in there, but the exhaustive rehashing of every controversy seems WP:UNDUE. This is a good example. Arbor832466 (talk) 16:44, 16 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I really don't think this is needed. The controversies section has been worked on extensively and I and many other editors have toiled to get it to meet NPOV standards. This article has not changed too much since it was granted GA status. ~BLM (talk) 01:26, 24 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • I agree, way too much mention of each insignificant little controversy. Needs to be cut down significantly. WMO Please leave me a wb if you reply 03:53, 2 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

While he said some controversial things, I think this could certainly be trimmed down. Truthsort (talk) 03:14, 4 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

So, let's fix it, and move on. Racepacket (talk) 11:20, 11 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Town hall incident[edit]

I removed a recently created section about an exchange between Moran and a constituent, per WP:NOTNEWS. It isn't notable, hasn't been widely covered and really doesn't belong in a bio. Arbor8 (talk) 00:27, 11 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The incident was covered in most of the local media (WUSA, WRC-TV, Alexandria Times, and according to TVEyes.com, WJLA-TV, WTTG, WTOP, and WFED) and Fox News nationally (he was interviewed live and according to TVEyes, the incident was covered on America Live with Megyn Kelly, Special Report with Bret Baier, and The O'Reilly Factor). NYyankees51 (talk)

Comments about Patrick Murray's "public service"[edit]

I moved a large chunk of text out of the "Controversies" section and into the section on the 2010 election, and deleted text already in that election section that duplicated what I was moving in. In general, "controversies" that involve statements about political opponents belong in the discussion of an election, and should not be pulled out separately. Such statements aren't particularly newsworthy outside of that context.

The text that remains in the article, about that matter, is still too long. The details belong in the separate article about the 2010 election, with only a brief summary in this article. I'm going to hold off making that change (and I'm not sure when I'll get back to this article) in case others want to discuss the matter. (See WP:SS for general information about the matter.) -- John Broughton (♫♫) 15:39, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I mostly agree, but I don't think you can shorten it any more. The part just tells the basic and the election article has more, including the details of the reaction. I think it works fine. NYyankees51 (talk) 19:43, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

2000 incident[edit]

I agree that the section merits inclusion in the article, but it needs a pretty drastic rewrite to make it neutral enough to be included in the article. The cited Washington Post story might be a good place to start. Arbor8 (talk) 17:43, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Merge[edit]

Ok let's talk about merging. I perfer one U.S. House of Representatives section with most of the information about his tenure in it. If the person has held public office prior, then I would be ok with a political positions section.--Jerzeykydd (talk) 19:33, 25 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The article is already sectioned very well. What you propose is to flatten the article and remove the hierarchy, it sounds like the article would be regressing.Fasttimes68 (talk) 01:48, 28 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Whoops[edit]

This was a mistaken edit on my part, was trying to remove the material rather than revert its removal. a13ean (talk) 19:14, 25 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Patrick Moran[edit]

Jim Moran's son, who used to be Moran's political director of his Congressional campaign pleaded guilty to beating up his girlfriend on Washington DC street. Another editor removed this information about Moran's son. It is notable for many reasons, but two of them are simple. Patrick Moran is one of Jim Moran's children and we have included information about his daughter's fight against cancer. Also, Patrick Moran made a clear choice to get in the spotlight by becoming his father's political director. Also, Patrick Moran recently stepped down from his political position after after a recent, well-publicized voter fraud scandal. This information is notable and Patrick Moran's beating of his girlfriend is a matter of public record. This information should be in the article. Also, the editor who removed it did not engage in any type of discussion before the removal. I will work the information back into the article.--ExclusiveAgent (talk) 00:26, 21 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

As a general rule, the notability of a politician doesn't mean that arrests of offspring are worthy of inclusion. For example, the Jeb Bush article doesn't mention his daughter Noelle Bush's drug arrest, nor her subsequent ten-day jail term for violating the terms of her court-ordered drug rehabilitation program. (See here.) Nor do all the incidents in a campaign manager's life belong in the candidate's bio. The "voter fraud scandal" (which was actually more hyped-up crap from serial liar James O'Keefe) related to Jim Moran's campaign and so belongs in the article, although I'm editing the description to track what the source says and to include Patrick's side of the story. JamesMLane t c 14:44, 2 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Psycho[edit]

James Moran is a wife-beating, arrest avoiding, child restraining, IRA supporting, military demeaning, draft dodging, Israel and Jew bashing, colleague assaulting and threatening thug, and a convicted fraudster (nolo contendere is a guilty plea). He was elected by the federal government employee lobby in the Arlington area and drawn into politics by the she-devil Mame Reiley, who tried to turn Virginia into a southern Massachusetts and as far as statewide office holders go, apparently succeeded. I just needed to vent. Thanks, y'all. Quis separabit? 01:37, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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