Talk:Lord of the Flies

Semi-protected edit request on 21 December 2022

a “[j]olly good show. Like the Coral Island."

should be “[a] jolly good show. Like the Coral Island.” Fortifiedfruit (talk) 23:18, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

 Done 💜  melecie  talk - 23:54, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

I've reverted this, because that's not the quote. The quote from the book is (as pointed out by Fortifiedfruit) "I know. Jolly good show. Like the Coral Island." If we want to use this quote in a readable sense, then we have to modify it by losing the "a" and clarifying that the "j" is lower case to signify that it's now part of a sentence, not the beginning of a sentence, as it is in the original quote. This may seem trivial, but it's exactly the same level of trivia as requested to change it from "a jolly good show, like the Coral Island" to "[a] jolly good show. Like the Coral Island."

If we're going to use quotes, we have to use them correctly, and as per MOS:CONFORM although there are other intepretations, square brackets to indicate a change of capitalisation is how to do it. Chaheel Riens (talk) 10:18, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Just a note that, as MOS:CONFORM makes explicit, it is absolutely not necessary to put the small J in brackets to indicate it's been decapitalised from the source. It's acceptable to do, but it's nonstandard and shows a pointless fussiness that can make the reader distrust the editor. I'd submit there's no reason for any brackets here at all; it would be best as a "jolly good show. Like the Coral Island." Binabik80 (talk) 18:48, 15 December 2023 (UTC) Binabik80 (talk) 18:48, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

Themes typo satire

In Themes, suggest editing:

... makes the novel a satirical the very behavior ...

such as to:

... makes the novel a satire of the very behavior ...

174.160.168.129 (talk) 23:16, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

 Done—Anita5192 (talk) 23:39, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

The fallacy of the Tongan castaways comparison

6 friends, where the oldest is 16, is a very different social dynamic than a planeload of far more schoolmates with rivalries, where the oldest is not quite 13.

The book doesn’t say how many boys, but it was a lot more than 6. The movie adaptations have kept it down to around 30 boys for cost and logistical reasons, but my impression on reading the book was more boys than that. Maybe 50ish?

Other differences that could have affected the boys' behavior:
• The Tongan boys were not the product of Britich schools of the day, which were famous for brutality.
• The Tongan boys were not frightened by the corpse of a fighter pilot floating down onto their island on a parachute and thereafter being hideously animated by gusts of wind. The boys of Lord of the Flies were cooperative, not fighting, before they were frightened by that.

When Lord of the Flies was published in 1954, Golding had been a schoolteacher since 1935, and later a schoolmaster, except for 5 years serving in the British navy during WWII. He knew something about how boys that age behave if left to their own devices. He also knew something about warfare.

The point of the novel is that the evil that leads to war is not something out there that we can escape from or litigate into oblivion; rather, it’s an innate part of human nature. We can’t make war go away by all holding hands in a circle and singing Kumbaya.

That’s what’s important about the book, not whether boys would really behave as depicted. No matter how boys would behave, the plain fact is that war happens. Golding wanted us to understand that it’s better to confront our dark inner truth than just play pretend.

We shouldn't be surprised if the people who most hate the book are the very people who firmly believe that we can make war go away by passing laws against it or singing Kumbaya. Greg Lovern (talk) 08:10, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

I agree that the comparison is a bit shaky. I thought the article would be more honest by referring to the Tongan castaways as "a group of 6 teenagers" rather than "a group of schoolboys", and I was going to edit the article as such, but semi-protection prevented me from doing so. 137.113.55.11 (talk) 15:23, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Many sections are poorly written

This page is very poorly written once you get past the plot. Feels like it needs a full overhaul. 47.20.150.228 (talk) 23:46, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

Agreed. Tagged for cleanup. Jahaza (talk) 17:05, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

I agree. Some of it almost reads like it was written by a robot. 81.170.31.163 (talk) 21:44, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

This entire page needs to be burned down Jove108 (talk) 14:38, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 September 2023

Change " the cooperation of children without adult authority can quickly escalate to disorder and chaos," to " the cooperation of children without adult authority can quickly descend into disorder and chaos," AyrtonNorris (talk) 18:49, 16 September 2023 (UTC)

 Done—Anita5192 (talk) 19:23, 16 September 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 October 2023

It would be best to change "However, Charles Monteith decided to take on the manuscript[7] and worked with Golding to complete several fairly major edits, including the removal of the entire first section of the novel, which had previously described an evacuation from nuclear war" To say something along the lines of "However, Charles Monteith [goldings editor] decided to take on the manuscript[7] and worked with Golding to complete several fairly major edits, including the removal of the entire first section of the novel, which had previously described an evacuation from nuclear war." To help the reader understand quickly just who Charles Monteith is without having to go to his page. While a small edit I think it would help greatly. Thanks if you agree Jove108 (talk) 13:20, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for your interest, but the link elaborates on who Charles Monteith is, and the rest of the sentence explains his relevance to Golding.—Anita5192 (talk) 14:01, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

Yes I understand that but it's just two to three extra words and it wouldn't ruin the rest of the sentence or anything if put there. Also thanks very much for responding so quick Jove108 (talk) 14:41, 10 October 2023 (UTC)