Talk:First-person adventure/Archive 1

Right, I changed the intro to read 'type of video game' rather than 'type of computer game.' After scanning the current definition of both, I just thought it fit better - it does, after all, depend on the video aspect by definition. Also, the only FPA I know about it Metroid Prime, which is definitely a console video game, and the term was, after all, first used to describe it. The distinction between computer and video games is of course a rather hazy subject in some cases, though, and I admit I'm rather biased towards the consoles, so if anyone disagrees, let's talk it out, eh? ^_^ --Sparky the Seventh Chaos 06:28, Aug 30, 2004 (UTC)

Should this article be about adventure games? In any case, talk of Metroid Prime should go to the page about Metroid Prime.--Deadworm222 23:27, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

Sorry about my harsh wording. Now some kind soul has edited the article, and I did a few additions, including removing my own POV. If someone could add a few lines about those action-based first-person adventures, I then think that the foundations of this article are better. However, I suggest that because games like Myst and the Last Express are completely different from games like Grand Theft Auto and Metroid Prime, we do not categorize any games as first-person adventure. The end result would be very confusing with games that are vastly different in their style being in the same category...--Deadworm222 11:54, August 10, 2005 (UTC)

It seems to me that Metroid Prime is the only action-based game classified as first-person adventure. However, adventure game players have been referring to first person adventure games as first person adventure since... forever. And as we can see from the talk-page, people are saying that Metroid Prime is more like an FPS, so I think I'll add that "erroneously" there again.--Deadworm222 12:01, August 10, 2005 (UTC)

Sigh

I noticed rapid changes, and decided to agree with the person saying its an FPS. I own numerous FPS's and have argued about Metroid Prime previously. All the points brought up about MP's uniqueness, apply to other games than were subsequently been defined as FPS's. Why should MP be different? Techni

I have tried to write an article that can be agreeable to both parties and have a NPOV. It would probably be good to have some examples of other games that FPS-as-a-Prime-genre advocates feel would also count as FPAs, if you would be willing to provide them. --Sparky the Seventh Chaos 19:17, Aug 31, 2004 (UTC)

http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=984&topic=15946236 Every point brought up about MP's uniqueness was countered and other examples of it found in other FPSs Techni

One thing that has made me think the MP is not a first person shooter is that there is no skill needed in shooting. You can lock on to any enemy, so you don't have to aim. ___Ebelular 19:59, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)

You dont have to with the BGF9000 in Doom either Techni

But that's a special gun. In MP, every gun allows you to lock on. You don't need to aim for any gun. ____Ebelular 21:49, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Doesnt matter, Doom and Perfect Dark share that point of MP's 'uniqueness' Doesnt have to be for every gun. (Perfect Dark had a gun that auto locked as well) Techni

No, there isn't much skill needed in aiming, except for a few places where you can't use the auto-aim; instead the focus is more on dodging and such. Another weird little thing is the third-person Morph Ball sections... which aren't always totally separate from the shooting - I can think of at least one boss where the Morph Ball is needed, several where it helps, and of course it's essential in case a Metroid latchs on.

Anyway. Think the article shows both points of view nice and equally? I'm more on the FPA side of things, mainly because I honestly think MP feels more like an adventure than a shooter, and I want to know how well I managed to present both sides. Think it's satisfactory? --Sparky the Seventh Chaos 20:18, Aug 31, 2004 (UTC)

If it showed both points equally (which it doesnt) there wouldn't be this argument.Techni

Then quit complaining and enlighten us on how it does not show both sides equally. As I said, you, the FPS advocates, are not likely to convince us, the FPA advocates, that Prime is a FPS, and we are not likely to convince you that it is a FPA. The fact is, both opinions exist, and I'm trying to present your side as equal with mine. Please, tell us, why do you feel the article does not currently represent both sides? Both are given about one sentence apiece. I tried to avoid loaded words as much as I could. It is a fact that Nintendo and Retro Studios, the guys who made the game and therefore the official source, call Metroid Prime a FPA, and it is a fact that some people agree with them. No amount of complaining will fix that. Likewise, it's a fact that some people don't agree with Nintendo and the other FPA advocates, and no amount of complaining will fix that, either. --Sparky the Seventh Chaos 04:17, Sep 1, 2004 (UTC)

Im more along the lines of it being primarily an FPS since you can tell that by looking at it, If it was equality you wanted youd have left the FPS with adventure elements instead of making a new genre up. You cant make new genres up for every game, they have to fit in existing ones. If they removed the shooting element altogether, than it wouldn't be an FPS Techni

But that's what Nintendo did. It is Nintendo's opinion, as well as the opinion of people who agree with them, that Prime is the world's first FPA. Did rhythm games such as Dance Dance Revolution have to fit into a preexisting genre? Admittedly they are much less ambiguous than Prime is, but where there are conflicting opinions on a subject, it is standard on Wikipedia to include all of them in order to have a neutral point of view. I am trying to give equal voice to both your opinion and my opinion, but I need the help of those on the other side. I don't play shooters much, and I can't think of any other game that might be classified as a FPA but isn't. I've reverted the article again, and I ask that you kindly add some examples of games classified as FPSers that might be classified as FPAs to the article. I think a Prime as a FPS advocate would be able to write that much better than a Prime as a FPA advocate. --Sparky the Seventh Chaos 21:05, Aug 31, 2004 (UTC)

I fit the description of an FPS expert, http://neotechni.no-ip.com/fps.asp MP does not play that differently from Halo. MP has lots of exploration, Halo had huge gargantuan levels to explore as well. MP had the third person view, so did Halo for vehicles, you could turn up auto aim sensitivity and remove the sharp shooting aspect in Halo Techni

As I said... please add your opinions to the article, and examples to support them - but not to refute the other side - to the article so that both sides are portrayed equally. It does not look like the FPA advocates will ever agree with the FPS advocates, nor does it look like the other way around will happen, and that is not the point of NPOV anyway. The point is to equally present all sides of an argument. I do not think that my way of mentioning FPS-advocates tries to negate them, but I am very open to the possibility that I subconciously have - I am "writing for the enemy," so to speak, after all. Please, add your arguments to the article neutrally, and let's let the readers decide for themselves. --Sparky the Seventh Chaos 01:58, Sep 1, 2004 (UTC)

To those who think it's a FPS: People are using that term. Google shows 7,000 hits. Wikipedia should explain things. If someone came across this term for the first time, they would want to know what it means. Wikipedia should tell them. ____Ebelular 21:49, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Hmm... let's discuss how we are going to do this.

It's amazing how much debate this little article is causing, but I feel the need to stir it up again, I suppose. I like the reworded introduction, it's much clearer now, but the rest of the article's changes seem to favor the "there is no such genre" side a little too much now, at least in my view. Besides that, while Prime is an important part of the FPA controversy – it is, after all, currently the only video game labelled as such – this article is about first-person adventures, not Metroid Prime itself. I think the new additions to this article would be better off with a little Neutral POV'ing over at the main Metroid Prime article.

I hope I'm not coming off as trying to insert just my POV into the article. I just think the old article's way of doing it – having the pro side and then the con side, not really trying to asert one over the other, just presenting the sides – works better than the current revision. I am unsure how to approach NPOV'ing this revision... Right now, it seems like it's only presenting things in the negitive, and, well, even if it was, in the end, just damage control on Nintendo's part, there are people, like me, who think Prime is the first game in a legitimate new genre.

So. Let's try and come up with something that makes everyone happy. --Sparky the Seventh Chaos 06:19, Oct 12, 2004 (UTC)

Oh, and P.S. – the "unearthly arachnids?" Someody put a link in this talk page to the SpaceWorld video – I'm sure somebody around here can ID the things. :) --Sparky the Seventh Chaos 06:21, Oct 12, 2004 (UTC)

Sup I'm surprised that you found that draft to be from a negative POV -- I like FPAs. But I tried to reword it a little bit. I think some of it should be copied over to the Prime article, but I don't know that it should be removed from this one. Cookiecaper 02:17, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Cool, I think this version looks a lot better - the bit at the end about the "FPA advocates" evens it out nicely, I think. ^_^ So, Prime's article... I guess the Prime article breifly touches on the whole thing with the sentence "Many Metroid fans believe that Prime was a great transition into 3-D for the series; however, some question the choice on having it made as a first-person game," and it does link to this article here... hmm. What parts do you think could add to the Prime article? --Sparky the Seventh Chaos 05:11, Oct 13, 2004 (UTC)

It's/its.

It's is not the possesive form of it. It's is the contraction for it is. Its is the possessive.

Its and it's are a peculiar case; it's easy to confuse the meanings. :) --Sparky the Seventh Chaos 14:33, Oct 13, 2004 (UTC)

Okay cool. Thanks for letting me know ;) Cookiecaper 21:15, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

A relatively new genre?

The PC adventure game Normality (1996, I think) could be referred to as a first person adventure. The main viewpoint was first person, but on top of that was a mouse cursor which made the game behave as a point and click adventure game, like The Secret of Monkey Island. But I suppose at the time it was merely referred to as an adventure game, and it's true that first person adventure has only been in use since Metroid Prime. So forget I said anything. :) --Nick R 14:37, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

An earlier example of an adventure game played from first-person point of view is Lost In Time (Sierra, 1994), looking further back at simpler games (not FMV, but still adventure and first-person) there's Deja Vu (Mindscape, 1985).

Yeah, first-person-perspective isn't exactly a new development in adventure games. Kult/Chamber of the Sci-Mutant Priestess also used first person. -Sean Curtin 07:09, 16 October 2005 (UTC)