Talk:Chinese Communist Party

It’s not far left

Is a mix of neoliberalism and ultra nationalism Usydydjwhxyxhx (talk) 11:22, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

source? DOR (ex-HK) (talk) 16:13, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

In the Chinese Wikipedia, "Neoauthoritarianism" (新权威主义) is mentioned in the information box of the Chinese Communist Party article. CCP is not the usual far-left or Marxist-Leninist party. ProKMT (talk) 06:21, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

The term has very descriptive value in itself, and what it does doesn't really seem mutually exclusive with the almost-as-vague "far left". Remsense诉 07:26, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

In Taiwan, pro-Beijing political parties or organizations are usually far-right. In Hong Kong, pro-Beijing political parties and organizations range from centre-right to far-right. According to the traditional left-right spectrum distinction, the CCP stands for social orders and hierarchy and advocates traditional values related to Confucianism, which is what the English Wikipedia defines as Right-wing politics. Chinese Wikipedia refers to the political position of the CCP as the third position (第三位置) which is also inaccurate given the PRC's de facto adoption of authoritarian capitalism. Not many sources describe the current CCP as "far-left". CCP is more of a far-right political party. ProKMT (talk) 07:59, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

I don't feel strongly because I think the left–right spectrum is pretty unhelpful beyond the broadest strokes of analysis. Remsense诉 09:19, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Left-Right political descriptors are usually unhelpful as they are so time-specific and specific to national contexts. I recommend avoiding where we can, especially for non-Western contexts. JArthur1984 (talk) 18:54, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

I do not think it is productive for us to rehash a debate that has been had on this talk page a few times now. Bottom line is analyses and opinions are attributed to their authors in the article body and generally not placed in infoboxes unless it is proven through the citation of multiple reliable sources that it is the generally accepted point of view.

It is also clear to me that the original discussion starter is not here to build an encyclopedia but start fires wherever they can. Yue🌙 20:40, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Note: The attribution of third position is quite controversial in the Chinese Wikipedia. The tag was previously added for a long time and removed for a long time, but was recently added again without proper discussion, and removed again by me. Several previous discussions have considered such attribution to be clearly an original research, and very little, if not none, of the literature refers to it as such. ときさき くるみ ^{not because they are easy, but because they are hard} 04:52, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

the real name is the CPC

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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surely this is a deliberate thing seeing as the official name is still listed, but why is the official name not the name of the article? i havent seen or even heard of anything similar to this on any other wikipedia article so why is this one different? imagine if the page on the "united states of america" was actually titled "united american states" with a note in the header that the title is in fact incorrect and that the actual name is the "united states of america" 203.214.36.148 (talk) 12:34, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Yeah it's ridiculous. But good luck getting it fixed. Simonm223 (talk) 12:41, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

It should indeed be Communist Party of China/CPC. Both this and the CCP abbreviation are common usage, but CPC has the advantage of being correct (even CCP proponents will agree that it is “official” at a minimum), is more consistent with WP:GLOBAL, and avoids confusion with “CCCP”.

With that being said, take a look at the archives on Talk, and you will see that it is too soon to re-start a page move discussion. It won’t be productive yet. JArthur1984 (talk) 13:06, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

1. It has been discussed to death, and Wikipedia:COMMONNAME rules the result. 2. It's the "United States" for now, so not so strong a point for me. ときさき くるみ ^{not because they are easy, but because they are hard} 13:20, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

It's the efforts of a certain user whom I will not name (though it should be fairly obvious who I am referring to) who has been changing every instance of "Communist Party of China" to "Chinese Communist Party" and "CPC" to "CCP" on an industrial scale to legitimise the claims that the latter is more common. 142.117.70.0 (talk) 20:22, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

No, while I disagree with the consensus and the policy it is based on, you are flat out wrong with your conspiracy mongering. "Chinese Communist Party" has been the more common name in English literature since the inception of the party. The editor you are referring to made the changes after the community established the consensus; the editor did not make the changes and then push for a community consensus in their favour. The editor was performing technical cleanup, and it would be clear to anyone who checks that editor's history for more than a few minutes that their thing is technical cleanup, not editing political articles (perhaps, unlike myself). WP:COMMONNAME is based on coverage by reliable sources, not across Wikipedia itself. Keep your conspiracies outside of Wikipedia. Yue🌙 00:47, 19 April 2024 (

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

In what way is the CCP not a far-right party?

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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• 🇹🇼 - Nationalist China (Republican): right-wing

• 🇨🇳 - Communist China (Maoist): far-left

• 🇨🇳 - Communist China (Reformist): right-wing

• 🇨🇳 - Nationalist China (Xi): far-right

• 🇹🇼 - White Terror (Chiang Kai-shek): far-right

• 🇹🇼 - Democratic Taiwan: left-liberal

China ceased being far-leftist since 1978 (Reform and Opening Up). China became a right-wing dictatorship the moment the PLA opened fire on the students at Tiananmen Square (Shanghai Massacre 2.0). Today, China under Xi is a far-right dictatorship (White Terror 2.0).

https://www.reddit.com/r/tankiejerk/comments/1cotykq/china_wings/#lightbox

I mean, if the Worker’s Party of Korea could be described as far-right, what’s stopping the CCP from being assigned the same label?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workers%27_Party_of_Korea Watermizu6576 (talk) 17:33, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

The policy-based answer to your question is because you need to cite reliable sources for your claims; your original analyses are irrelevant because you are not an expert.

I also find it odd that you made your account and comment shortly after an IP changed the WPK's position to far-right again despite multiple discussions in the community on the matter. Your implicit suggestion that the WPK has been described as far-right on Wikipedia for a while is untrue. Yue🌙 20:34, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Take a look at these pro-unification groups from Taiwan:

Chinese Unification Promotion Party

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Patriot_Alliance_Association&wprov=rarw1

Both are far-right. In fact, the pro-Beijing camp in Hong Kong are right-wing. Watermizu6576 (talk) 02:10, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Okay, since you are citing Wikipedia and (presumably) yourself again despite my explanation of the relevant site policies, I am just going to assume you are not here to build an encyclopedia and will disengage from this conversation. Anybody else can feel free to close this very unproductive discussion. Yue🌙 03:15, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

It seems to me that you are the one who is afraid of having an honest discussion. You also accused me of tampering with the Wiki page of the Worker’s Party of Korea (which you have no evidence of).

Face it, the CCP became the very thing they claim to be against: an ultranationalist, hypercapitalist party that has no regard for worker’s rights. That sounds like a fascist party doesn’t it? Watermizu6576 (talk) 09:10, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Per WP:NOTFORUM, this is not the purpose of a Wikipedia talk page - they are not places to hold general discussion of the article subject. MrOllie (talk) 11:33, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

There has been a consistent POV push by a small number of editors to create or modify pages on Wikipedia so that they seem to indicate, effectively on the basis of a single source, that the CPC is a conservative party and that the opposition parties to it in various places are thus, intrinsically, left-wing. The broadly distributed nature of this POV pushing has made cleanup difficult, to say the least, which is one of many reasons why we don't use Wikipedia as a source for Wikipedia. Simonm223 (talk) 13:10, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

@Simonm223: and @Watermizu6576: The political positions of the CUPP and PAA in Taiwan do not immediately prove the political positions of the CCP; per WP:SYNTH. In Eastern Europe, left-wing socialist parties based on the communist legacy of the 20th century sometimes stand in solidarity with far-right populist parties. Personally, I also think the CCP is a far-right political party, but since this is controversial, it's better not to add a political position to infobox. ProKMT (talk) 01:18, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes, adding the label of "far-right" should not be done, but not because it's "controversial", but because nobody has yet offered a single reliable source to back up this claim. The content featured on Wikipedia is not dependent on debates over editors' opinions, but debates over editors' usage and interpretation of reliable sources. This is a fundamental distinction that new editors often misunderstand because they think consensus building is based solely on arguments and votes rather than references to policy. If every source considered reliable by Wikipedia screamed that the CCP was far-right, then those opposed to that change would have a huge mountain to climb. This, however, is not the case.

It is incredibly frustrating to see multiple new editors gloss over and then ignore policy just to constantly rehash old discussions about fringe opinions, especially their own fringe opinions. People will often find that what they think is obvious or "the truth" about something as complex as politics is not as universally held as they might have initially thought, especially after they venture outside of whatever secluded space online or otherwise that they manifest them in. Yue🌙 05:33, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

This is why it's very important that sources are relevant to the content they refer to. If a source is being used in a way that is unsupported, that fails verification, then the source is being used incorrectly. @ProKMT please be more alert to this going forward. Simonm223 (talk) 12:18, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

@Watermizu6576: This discussion is a waste of everyone's time. You come in as a new user and the first thing you do is make a suggestion by citing reddit and Wikipedia. This is not a forum, this is not the town square, this is not reddit; nobody who's serious about this WikiProject is interested in "having an honest discussion", what matters on Wikipedia is if you have reliable sources to back up your claims and if you do, what suggestions or edits are you making with those sources.

Outside of Wikipedia I often have these discussions and I don't even disagree with some of the analyses offered here, but this is not a discussion board and Wikipedia's content isn't determined by the opinions of its editors. Please review the basic site guidelines like WP:RS and WP:OR before making another comment or suggestion, or find another website, like reddit, to dump your commentary in. Yue🌙 05:11, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.