Talk:Khmer people

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Wikify April 2006[edit]

Don't have time now but this article needs to be subsectioned, wikified, copyedited and sourced.--WilliamThweatt 04:30, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That, it does. NeoApsara 19:29, 15 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
For now, I'll just delete the part about Khmers chewing betel nuts. I mean many do, but it reads more like something you find in descriptional guide books for travelers than that of an encyclopedia. David P. Chandler's work would be good references, but I don't have them with me now. Otherwise, I'd be all over this one.NeoApsara 19:55, 17 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Incorrect Information[edit]

Migrations into the mainland regions of Southeast Asia from the north continued well into historic times. The Khmer came with earlier waves following in the wake of the proto-Malays. The Khmer are closely related to the Mon who settled further to the west. Based on linguistic and anthropoligic evidence, most scholars believe the proto-Mon-Khmer peoples originated around the area of the Brahmaputra River valley (present-day Assam, India and Tibet).

This is incorrect, first of all this say Khmers followed in the wake of proto-malays, why ealier waves? Are khmer not relatively late in southeast asia? They came to present day southeast asia only or at least less then 3200 years ago. And as for the Assam part, Mon-Khmer most likely have their origins in the southern Yangtze, seeing as The Mon-Khmer came down because of the expansion of Han westwards into Mon-Khmer territory. Please provide more sources or change the article.

http://www.myanmar.gov.mm/Perspective/persp1997/9-97/mon9-97.htm

There was a linguistic paper by Professors Jerry Norman and Tsu-Lin Mei presented to the 3rd Sino-Tibetan Conference in 1970. The authors stated that ancient South China was almost exclusively populated by non-Chinese people. They also stated that the Austroasiatic family of languages includes Munda in northern India, Khasi in Assam; Palaung-Wa in Upper Myanmar and Yunnan; Mon-Khmer in Lower Myanmar and Combodia; as well as in parts of Vietnam, Laos and Thailand.

As the Chinese came down from their homeland in the Yellow River valley they met Mon-Khmer in the middle of the Yangtze region between 1000 and 500 B.C, when the Chinese adopted the Mon-Khmer word Krung/Krong/Krag which has evolved to the modern Chinese word Kiang or Chiang for river.

All the statements support the assumption of taking Yangtze Kiang Valley as the original homeland of the Mon-Khmer. In the Mon language, the word Krung/Krug means river in ancient literature and old Mon inscriptions but it means creek or stream in modern Mon. Because the Mons had obtained the Sanskrit word Mahasamudra for sea or ocean their own word for ocean labi subsequently changed to river and their word for river, to creek or stream.

--user:Leaki 12:53, 20 August 2006

If these suppositions are correct, all that means is that at the time of the Han Chinese expansion there were various Mon-Khmer groups present in Southern China. It doesn't mean that is where they originated, only that this is where they were at the time in the process of their migration. Where were they before that? More solid linguistic, anthropoligical, genetic and archaeological evidence and even origin-myths of various Mon-Khmer cultures point to an origin further east west for the Proto-Mon-Khmers. As for the part about "earlier waves", I'm sure you'll agree that the various Mon-Khmer tribes didn't just march en masse into the peninsula. The most accepted migration model is that they trickled in in waves, settling in small communities where ever they could (out of the way of the Proto-Malays already present), until after probably generations they were numerous enough to become a political/military force. The various hill tribes still extant today are most probably remnants of these earlier Mon-Khmer migrations that were eventually displaced by the Khmer. If you can word this better, then by all means do so, but the current version, as you altered it today, is not just incomplete, but incorrect.--WilliamThweatt 20:12, 20 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Can you tell me more? I had no idea that there were proto-mon-khmer. I have little doubt that the Yangtze was probaly home to the Mon-khmer people, seeing as the khmer were quite young while compared to malays, as you say east, what do you mean? East as far as the middle yangtze? And I agree that they didn't march in masses, but I think it is more appropiate to put that in a seperate article, maybe you'll like to create ones for proto mon-khmer because the khmers, whom are in cambodia today are not protos, so it would not belong in this article. Khmer whom inhabit Cambodia today are of the same linage as modern mon-khmers, maybe only the khasi people are protos? Khmers themselve are relatively late if there were proto mon-khmers, but when compared to malays whom were the first to inhabit Southeast asia, they themselves are late, I guess at 2300 b.c? Because that is when Mon-khmer started divergance from other groups. But I think any information on proto-mon-khmer should stay out of modern Khmers. I'll edit, and add proto-mon khmer article. But you have more knowledge on protos, so i hope you can help write it. --leaki
My mistake, I was writing in a hurry, on my way out the door, so to speak. I meant to say further west as in the Brahmaputra River Valley, not east. And, by your reply, I'm not sure you understand the terminology used in studying historical population migrations/classifications. "Proto-Mon-Khmer" is not a designation of a separate ethnic group, but rather is used in reference to the "original" Mon-Khmer population (ie before differentiation into separate sub-groups such as Mon, Khmer, Pear, Katuic, etc.). As I said earlier, the Mon-Khmer peoples most probably "stopped over" in the area around the Yangtze Valley, but this can not be their original homeland, this was just one place that they settled along their migration. That area of Southern China was home to the Tibeto-Burman and Tai (Daic) peoples. Analysis of both Y-chromosome DNA and mitochondrial DNA shows that the Tibeto-Burman and Tai (Daic) people have ancient origins tied to the people of East Asia while the same genetic research shows that the Austro-Asiatic peoples, which include the Mon-Khmer, share the ancient DNA markers of Southern Asia (Dravidians and other people groups in mountainous eastern India). The genetic evidence alone rules out the posibility of the Yangtze as the homeland of the Mon-Khmers. It may have once been a "home", but not their original "Homeland".--WilliamThweatt 23:46, 20 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I doubt the proto mon-khmers actually came from the brama river, where is all these information coming from, you have to provide somthing. And I doubt also that mon-khmers are closer to dravidans then tai or chinese, munda genes are not to be account for because they are no longer wholly related to their ancient ancestors, they have been absorbed by dravidians, but if the brama river is home to the munda not mon-khmer. As for their origins in South India's mountains, it can not be true since we know taht the mongoloids race originated in east, or possibly central asia.
Since school started back up, I don't have as much time to devote to Wikipedia as I would like. I will try to dig up the current literature from which this is taken. Until then I will not place it back in the article. However, I think you misunderstand both the information I placed in the article and the nature of genetic studies. First of all, the Mon-Khmer are not mongoloids. The "mongoloid" phenotypes that currently manifest themselves in the Khmer population are due to relatively recent admixture of Chinese, Vietnamese and Thai genes. Secondly, the genetic research allows us to look back in time and gives an account of when certain "racial-specific" (for lack of a better term) markers were introduced into the populations being studied. Setting aside the more recently introduced markers (as in the case of the Munda, since you mentioned them) we get a picture of the "core" Mon-Khmer population. And that "core" is much more similar in genetic make up to peoples like the Dravidians and those of far-Eastern India than to the other people groups presently in Southeast Asia. I will get the source up for you as soon as I can, but I can't say for sure how soon....it's a lot of material to wade through in addition to my other duties.--WilliamThweatt 21:04, 17 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
O.k, now its just blatant stupidity. Khmers, or mon-khmers were originally mongoloids and like most of southaeast asians originated in china. The hill tribe mon-khmers have absolutely no indian gene, and as for the munda they could not have been the core of mon-khmer because they themselve have mongoloid blood, which is strange since they live mainly with dravidians and have dravidian bloods. Vietnamese themselves are mon-khmer, and they ahve been sinicized to a certain extant. The mon-khmer race, or better understood as AA people have lived and range from Tibet to central china southern of the Yangtze river. They bordered the Daic people who lived to the east.


Here is what I found regarding DNA -

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=16788903&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=15772853&itool=iconabstr&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum


NeoApsara 03:45, 3 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Actually I think either mon-khmers adopted the speach of the proto-mundas or vice versa because they are in two diffrent population pools. The Mon-khmer may or may have not originated in india, but there might be a confusion between the origins of Austroasiatic and the origins of Munda. One supporting reason to suggest that they originated from India is that the Nicobarese Shompen have migrated 14,000 years ago. One argument that they did not is the large presence of Mon-khmer vocabulary for rice related things in Tai, old Chinese and Hmong languages. They could have likely migrated from china via the Yangtze. But then again, they could have came from either. One things for sure, there were people in insular southeast asia before the Mon-khmers. (CanCanDuo 04:40, 25 December 2006 (UTC))[reply]

"Spam" Links[edit]

I removed the whole of External Links. Some of these sites serve do not help with learning more about the Khmer people. And some of them were added to support their agenda or advertise their site (such as the Khmerdoctors and that weblog link). Feel free to add better links that do not have an agenda or are personal pages. External links should be informative in regards to the article (i.e. provide information on Khmer people) with no bias and unverified information. --Hecktor 16:12, 30 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ethnic groups in Vietnam?[edit]

Should that infobox for Ethnic groups in Vietnam be removed from this article? The term Khmer Krom is used to refer to Khmers in what is now southern Vietnam (and there is an infobox there already in that article). --Hecktor 16:15, 30 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

New Assessment Criteria for Ethnic Groups articles[edit]

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I rated the Khmer people article: B-Class, with the following comments (see link to Comments page in the Ethnic groups template atop this talk page):

  • A lot of good work on this page.
  • Good coverage of topic.
  • Could definitely use some wikifying and more in-text citations associated with references in the reference section.

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--Ling.Nut 13:12, 26 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Closely Related?[edit]

The article says Khmers and Mons are closely related, really? I know of three Mon-Khmer sub grouping, Northern, Eastern and Southern and the Khmers are in the Eastern group along with the Bahnars, Pearics, and Vietic. Mon are in the southern group, which the nicobarese are also. Althought clearly related, it is like saying the Germanic and Romance are closely related. I suggest taking this one out. --CanCanDuo 16:13, 6 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"related groups" info removed from infobox[edit]

For dedicated editors of this page: The "Related Groups" info was removed from all {{Infobox Ethnic group}} infoboxes. Comments may be left on the Ethnic groups talk page. Ling.Nut 21:08, 19 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hey i think that the khmers are originated from the kambojas Ipradyuman (talk) 12:20, 18 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Etymology of "Khmer"?[edit]

I was looking for the origin of the name "Khmer" and I couldn't find any information. I don't know if that's because the origin of "Khmer" is unknown. But even in that case, the fact that it's unknown should at least be mentioned. Henrypijames 15:13, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

While the etymology of the ethnonym "Khmer" is not known with certainty, it is assumed by most scholars to derive from an ancient ethnonym of probable Mon-Khmer origin. I find this topic quite interesting, but there is little source material available either on the internet or in commonly available publications. The Khmer themselves have been aware of the lack of knowledge concerning the etymology of the word and from an early period have considered the Sanskrit-sounding term "khemera" as the source. However, according to the Center for Khmer Studies in Siem Reap, "the word 'khemara' is actually a coining by the Khmers themselves, and is a pseudo-Pāli reconstruction of the ethnonym “Khmer” – a term of probably Mon-Khmer origin".[1]. The theory most accepted by scholars is that the term "khmer" contains an ancient Mon-Khmer element, 'khaa', which most likely meant something similar to "people". This element is also evident in other Mon-Khmer ethnonyms such as Khmu, Katu and Khasi. Although this hypothetical element has been lost in modern Khmer, 'khaa' was borrowed into Thai/Lao and originally used as a general term to refer to the Mon-Khmer peoples in Thai/Lao areas, but in historical times has come to have a derogatory meaning and in modern usage is often taken to mean "slave" (see [2]).--William Thweatt Talk | Contribs 20:16, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

90% of 13.9 million, or 100% of 13.9 million?[edit]

The infobox on the right says that Cambodia has a Khmer population of 13.9 million, but the body text says that only 90% of Cambodia's 13.9 million inhabitants are Khmer. Which is correct? LachlanA (talk) 03:05, 27 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Good catch. 13.9 million is the current estimate of the total population of Cambodia of which approximately 90% (or 12.5 million) are ethnic Khmers. I have edited the infobox to reflect this.--William Thweatt Talk | Contribs 19:03, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Population in Vietnam[edit]

This article gives a population of 1.7 million for Vietnam, while the Khmer Krom article (about Khmers in Vietnam) gives the figure of 527,174. What is the reason for this discrepancy and which is correct? Badagnani (talk) 21:40, 4 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Pronunciation of "Khmer"[edit]

It would be helpful to include IPA and/or audio to show how the name is pronounced.AdeMiami (talk) 21:29, 20 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If you ask me, it should be in the first paragraph, how "khmer" is pronounced --24.184.206.83 (talk) 00:11, 24 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I took a stab at it. I don't know how close I got since this is my first attempt at anything like this but maybe an expert will pick it up if I missed. WTucker (talk) 00:33, 24 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Khmer is only 1 syllable with "khm" treated as 1 consonant sound and "r" is not pronounced (similar to Khmer language pronunciation) https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/khmer

/kəˈmɛər, kəˈmaɪ/ >> Better /kmɛə, kmaɪ/

Snsqr May 25, 2019

Link[edit]

nabataeans was added as link as they were people as skilled in building waterways (eg at Angkor city), structures as the Khmer people —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.182.165.179 (talk) 17:58, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Untitled[edit]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_people DoesN'T show, skips over , the carpet bombings! http://rabble.ca/toolkit/on-this-day/us-secret-bombing-cambodia — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.216.86.101 (talk) 03:54, 14 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Assessment comment[edit]

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Khmer people/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

*A lot of good work on this page.
  • Good coverage of topic.
  • Could definitely use some wikifying and more in-text citations associated with references in the reference section.

Last edited at 13:08, 26 October 2006 (UTC). Substituted at 21:12, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

khmer origin[edit]

I think that khmer are origined from kambojas that are indo-iranian warriors Ipradyuman (talk) 12:21, 18 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thinking it does not make it so. No reliable source makes this claim. In fact, quite the opposite, numerous DNA studies have shown that Mon-Khmer populations (including the Khmer) are genetically distinct from Indo-Iranians.[3][4] The ancient name of Cambodia, "Kambuja", comes from two Pali/Sanskrit words Kambu ("gold") and ja ("born of" or "giving birth to"), giving a loosely translated "place birthed in gold" or "land born of gold". The name was a reference to the term Suvarnabhumi ("Land of Gold") used by ancient India to refer to various lands of Southeast Asia. They are completely unrelated to the Indo-Iranian Kambojas at the other end of the continent 5000+ miles away.--William Thweatt TalkContribs 22:31, 18 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Commons files used on this page have been nominated for speedy deletion[edit]

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Genetics[edit]

The information in the table seems to be about ethnic Koreans. Is it a mistake that it has been posted in the Khmer article or maybe I am missing something? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.91.212.222 (talk) 11:23, 24 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it is about Koreans, I think it was included because it includes a section about Cambodia. I have deleted it because it is more or less off topic. Thanks!--AsadalEditor (talk) 15:28, 22 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Kuy and Suay[edit]

Ethnic people from 3 provinces of Thailand (Surin, Buriram, and Sisaket call themselves Kuy or Suay, not Khmer. Some linguistics treat Kuy dialect as a separate language from Khmer. MTha2557 (talk) 07:32, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

New Khmer period[edit]

Now khmer new generation forgot khmer culture and use Thai culture instead by said they are original. 58.8.171.15 (talk) 09:18, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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