Talk:United States twenty-dollar bill/Archive 1

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Debate

Note that the article was titled "American twenty dollar bill" before the debate began

is it ok to move it to United States twenty dollar bill? Any objections? Optim 03:57, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Yes, I object. American is fine. RickK 03:59, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

It has disambiguation problems with North America, Central America, South America etc. Optim 04:01, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

No, it doesn't. "American" is the proper adjective to use to refer to the United States. RickK 04:02, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

With the same logic I suppose it will be ok to use "European" instead of "Greek" when referring to Greece... Optim 04:04, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

This disucssion is boring. It goes on too long. You claim not to be anti-American, but then you show your true colors. RickK 04:05, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I am not anti-American, really. I do not consider it an insult when someone prefers to use Istanbul instead of Constantinople. It belongs to Turkey now, so they can call it as they like, but some Greeks still consider Istanbul as insulting. For this reason somebody could call me Anti-Greek, but I am not. I just want to correct some things. I have got the feeling that the United States citizen thinks the whole American continent belongs to him/her... I Hope I am wrong Optim 04:14, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Optim - there is no continent called "America". There is North America and South America. --mav

Well, true. Optim 04:23, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

What's wrong with U.S. twenty dollar bill? --mav

United States twenty dollar bill or U.S. twenty dollar bill is perfectly fine. I would move this page all all relevant dollar bill pages to the "U.S. XX dollar bill" title format if RickK had no objections. Do you think we can have a poll on this issue and try to achieve a consensus or at least a majority vote? Optim 04:16, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

We are only at step 1 - polls are step 3. --mav

ok, np Optim 04:23, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

By discussing this page move I think I can help the Latin American countries and Canada to protect their culture and identity. I think that a Peruvian feels American, so they wouldn't like to let USA monopolise the American adjective. Actually I don't care so much about this issue, but I am afraid it is not NPOV to use the American adjective in this way, at least in article titles. However, if everybody thinks it's ok then I don't have strong desire to continue the discussion. Optim 04:24, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Uhuh. My point is proven. RickK 04:24, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

No. Next time I may make discussions against Russia. Will you call me Anti-Russian? I am not Anti-anything. I just promote tolerance, equality, internationalism, justice and cooperation. Optim 04:26, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

if a person from Peru, Mexico or any other American country could step in and give us his or her opinion, it would be very interesting and useful. Optim 04:26, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

No, it wouldn't. I am an American. That is the only adjective I will accept to refer to my nationality. RickK 04:28, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

You have the right to call yourself as you like. However, I think I have the same right. So, from now on I will call myself an American too and I will move Drachma to American Drachma (just kidding). Optim 04:30, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Note that the American twenty dollar bill will be kept as a redirect if you agree with the move. Optim 04:29, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

If I was really anti-American I wouldn't consider USA as a possible place to live in the future. Actually I admire USA and its power. However, I think some times we need to consider that a country may use its power to weaken other countries. I don't like that. And I wouldn't like Greece too if it used its power to weaken other Southeastern European countries. The same applies to Turkey, China, Russia, Germany, UK and all countries. Am I anti-American? Optim 04:40, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

An anti-American is a person who discriminates against USA. I don't do that. I am willing to support USA whenever somebody discriminates against it. If I discriminate against something, then I discriminate against discrimination. Optim 04:43, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I am a U.S. citizen and am very patriotic. When I call myself an American I mean that I am from the United States of America. However, American is an ambiguous adjective outside the U.S. Thus to disambiguate we use a less ambiguous term. I'm not at all convinced that American twenty dollar bill is even more common than U.S. twenty dollar bill. For me at least, U.S. twenty dollar bill sounds better - it is also shorter. --mav

We should also note that the article regarding the U.S. currency is located at United States dollar and not American dollar (which is a redirect), so the bill-articles should also follow a similar naming for consistency. Optim 04:50, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

6 Google hits for "United States twenty dollar bill", 105 for "U.S. twenty dollar bill", 62 for "American twenty dollar bill". Optim 04:57, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

The article belongs at United States twenty dollar bill. As mav stated, the main currency page is there and I agree its the more common form. Optim's opinions on the US aren't relevant, Rick. --Dante Alighieri | Talk 05:02, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Please see Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (US vs American). This is a good starting point for the nauseatingly repetitious debate over what to call people from the United States. RickK 05:04, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

The bill itself says United States of America and this is how it should be referred to in an encyclopedia, neither America nor United States will do, Mexico is also a "United States". In common usage of course both US and America are taken to mean USA. I suggest USA twenty dollar bill. Bob Palin 05:06, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Nobody seriously means Mexico when they say United States - at least not in English. --mav

Agreed on Mexico but that doesn't change the fact that the bill itself refers to the USA Bob Palin 05:30, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I've already indicated I support the U.S. over Amercian for this title. --mav 06:24, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Google returns zero hits for "USA twenty dollar bill" and suggests "Did you mean: US twenty dollar bill?". Optim 05:19, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

That's because Google is almost completely based on usage of English in the USA, an encyclopedia needs to be technically correct where there is any possible ambiguity.Bob Palin 05:30, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Not at all. Google covers the entire world. RickK 05:38, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Yes, but the vast majority of English language pages on the web are of USA origin and reflect that usage Bob Palin 05:41, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

You're gonna lose this argument, Bob, Wikipedia isn't interested in being correct. That's why we have Occam's Razor instead of the correct title which would be Ockham's Razor. --Dante Alighieri | Talk 03:27, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Wouldn't it be more professional and academic to be more interested in what is correct than what is simpler ? Optim 06:21, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)

As you may have noticed, the people who moved the page and made the disambiguation page, Zanimum and SimonP, are Canadian. I saw it in RC when it happened and I didn't think anything of it either; for us, "American" means US and it never includes Canada. If this is confusing for Europeans, that's strange, but move it wherever you want, I don't really care. Adam Bishop 05:22, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Maybe we can consider United States dollar twenty dollar bill or USD twenty dollar bill, too. Why refer to nationality when we can just refer to the currency? Optim 05:24, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I agree with Optim. "America" as a synonym for "United States" should be avoided. Move it to U.S. twenty dollar bill. --Wik 05:36, Feb 22, 2004 (UTC)

I think it does make sense to use United States or U.S. rather than America when we mean the States. Mark Richards 05:46, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC) See the comment on the manual of style page about the CIA world factbook - Country name:

conventional long form: United States of America

conventional short form: United States

abbreviation: US or USA

Mark Richards 05:52, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Uh oh! Time to move again??

Can we move the bill pages to pages of this kind: Federal Reserve twenty dollar bill?? After that, we can make pages like U.S. twenty dollar bill into dis-ambiguation pages for Federal Reserve twenty dollar bill and United States notes twenty dollar bill, the latter of which is for bills of the given denomination that were before the Federal Reserve began issuing bills in 1914. (Be careful not to confuse this with the time the sizes were reduced in 1928.) For a reference, you may use http://www.currencygallery.org. 66.245.66.44 20:11, 29 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Uh, no. Just add all that info into this one article - there is a lot of room. --mav 06:46, 30 Apr 2004 (UTC)

How is all that info to be added?? 66.32.79.137 13:39, 1 May 2004 (UTC)

Do some research and Start typing. --mav

I did everything I could! Anything I left out?? 66.245.80.142 16:19, 2 May 2004 (UTC)

Doesn't anyone got an image of old bills? Such a thing might be interesting to those who know only the new one. -- Taku 16:24, May 2, 2004 (UTC)

To answer this question, there are images at http://www.currencygallery.org, but they don't allow the images to be copied onto any random sites on the Internet, and don't ask me why; instead, please ask the owner of the site. if you want to know. 66.32.95.37 16:56, 2 May 2004 (UTC)

This needs updating?

68.167.191.152 05:03, 27 Apr 2004 (UTC): I just updated the article for the U.S. fifty dollar bill (as 67.100.123.21 and 68.167.191.152). Perhaps someone could do the same for the $20 and the rest of the denominations? Much of the text from the $50 page can be leveraged, though there are picky details about when designs are updated that need to be checked for on the Treasurey BEP website...

Be very careful with updating these pages. Make sure you know that 1914 or 1918, depending on the denomination, is the beginning of Federal Reserve notes, and this is not to be confused with 1928 being the beginning of small-sized notes. For the $10, $20, and $1000 (the large bills are all on one page titled Large denomination bills in US currency) the portraits were different; please don't remove this. 66.32.136.74 23:23, 27 Apr 2004 (UTC)