Talk:Fairbanks North Star Borough, Alaska

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Untitled[edit]

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Fair use rationale for File:Fnsblogo.gif[edit]

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Cities & towns really incomplete?[edit]

There is an incomplete tag on the cities and towns section dating from 11/2011 but no discussion of what's the problem here. Is this a real issue or a misplaced tag? TMLutas (talk) 01:13, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

See this edit [1]. Rk lived up there and knows more about these things than anyone else I have ever spoken to, so he is probably right. Seems like the census website would be the place to look to fix this up. Beeblebrox (talk) 01:18, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Probably because in general, there's more work for me to do than time to do it, including starting a talk page discussion for every last little thing. It seems like many discussions never go anywhere if they're not tied to some issue du jour. BTW, I'm still living here. Since you and I spoke on the matter, the Arizona gig fell apart. I may still be leaving anyway, as we're in the middle of a cost-of-living crisis and I'm lacking in both the sugar daddy hook-up and the cushy paycheck. Are you on natural gas or oil heat down there in Homer? If the latter, you probably know what I'm talking about.
There were a host of new CDPs created for the 2010 Census, many of which (and certainly the most heavily-populated ones) are in the FNSB. There appears to be a lull in interest in maintaining Wikipedia in general, or many who were active before became frustrated with various issues or internal politics. The Census Bureau's FactFinder site was recently revamped. The biggest change appears to be a built-in resistance to linking to it. A lot of 2010 Census data already added has been reverted by editors who are of the mindset of "No URL = no verifiability".
I added the new CDPs to the borough navboxes, but only very few actual articles have been created thus far. I've probably spent more time going through historical than current census data. Fascinating, but it opens up a can of worms in terms of whether we're presenting things in proper historical context. For instance, some of it calls into question statements made in History of Fairbanks, Alaska serious enough to warrant a GAR for that article. The information added since the tag was placed is correct, except for typos (it's Graehl, which is likely notable enough for its own article, considering that it began as a separate town from Fairbanks). Also, the 1960 Census information isn't relevant to this article, as the borough didn't exist in 1960.RadioKAOS (talk) 02:22, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

i completed the list of new CDP's (Census Designated places) theres 6 new ones and they do not have articals for them selves also you can visit -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_and_census-designated_places_in_Alaska and see them all there make sure you arrange that wiki page by borough or census area by clicking the triangle shape thing next to that so that you can see the populations of all of Fairbanks north stars places in one glance. the only further we could complete the list now is using the population figures from that page that i linked here and then its most complete. but as far as listing every place its now officially complete. 99.164.120.55 (talk) 14:29, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The Cities and towns list is incomplete again. somebody removed the Defunct Places. There were a number of former places in Fairbanks North Star borough in the 1960 and 1970 census's that were taken off the list. Until the list of Defunct places is put back on the Cities and towns list is not fully complete. 99.45.130.77 (talk) 18:28, 22 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree with you RadioKAOS (talk the 1960 and 1970 census information is relevant i purposefully excluded the 1939 and the 1950 census information but i wanted to keep the 1960 and 1970 information. we need the 1970 information because it clearly indicated that there's other places that could be on the list such as a sub-list for defunct places. But it was only in the 1960 census that the electoral district of Fairbanks which is now called Fairbanks North Star was created. prior to this in the 1950 census the Entire state was divided into only 4 local governing areas known as the Judicial divisions of Nome ,Anchorage ,Juneau and Fairbanks. I wanted the 1960 census because there actually was a equivalent area the what is now FNSB on the map. Prior to the 1960 census the area that included Fairbanks covered a much broader area in size probably even bigger than the state of Montana. so i felt strongly that using the census data from before the 1960 borough equivalents were used in the 1950 and 1939 territorial census's would have been in some kind of error. 99.45.130.77 (talk) 18:44, 22 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

To quote Theodore Long: "Hold up, playa". To start, I believe it was Nyttend who removed that information from the article, yet he has chosen not to contribute to this discussion thus far. I've reread historical census data since we last spoke on this issue. The four first-level divisions of Alaska date back to the 1910 Census, as they were established for judicial purposes in 1909. These four divisions remain largely intact to this day and are still used by the state for non-elective offices, including judicial offices. In pre-statehood censuses, the second-level divisions were the recording districts. This means that the current use of Recording District (Alaska) on Wikipedia is misleading in that it fails to properly present the entity's history, but that argument is probably better left for another time and place. Fairbanks was the center of the Fourth Division, but that made it the administrative center only for certain functions. Places like Eagle and Nenana had their own municipal governments and their own recording districts, including their own U.S. Commissioners to administer the affairs of the latter.
This article is about the Fairbanks North Star Borough, which came into existence at the beginning of 1964. The Mandatory Borough Act created this and other boroughs based on election districts, which were used as first-level divisions in the 1960 Census. Places which were enumerated by the Census Bureau as separate communities in 1960 may be relevant to the context of the greater Fairbanks area, but not to the context of an entity which did not exist in 1960. Of course, 1970 places are relevant, but you may wish to ask Nyttend to explain himself, as he was the one who removed those, not me. It could possibly have something to do with the fact that those places are all currently neighborhoods of the present-day City of Fairbanks. The community articles on Wikipedia were mass-created by a bot based upon 2000 Census data. The end result is that not only is coverage of 2010 CDPs lacking, but coverage of 1980 and 1990 CDPs (not to mention predecessor entities prior to the establishment of the term "census-designated place") is nearly non-existent. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 23:29, 22 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Your assumption of good faith is quite welcome. You fail to consider that I was completely unaware of this discussion. Provide diffs, because I haven't the slightest clue of what is going on, or why I should care about your accusations. Nyttend (talk) 01:39, 23 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Rather than throw out "assume good faith", perhaps "assume that the revision history tab is prominently placed in each article for a reason" would be more appropriate. Going through that revision history reveals that you've made three edits to this article, not including the possibility of IP edits. The last two of those edits, the ones which are relevant to this discussion, are as follows (with edit summaries quoted): "No evidence that these are CDPs" and "In that case, they're Fairbanks neighborhoods, and we shouldn't end up listing municipal neighborhoods". In the first case, you're doubting the existence of new CDPs approximately three years after they were established, presumably because Wikipedia is supposed to operate at the same glacial pace as the federal government in terms of putting out information, unless it's something that's "trending". In the second case, you're dismissing CDP-equivalent enumerated places reported in the 1960 and 1970 Censuses, presumably because Google isn't making such information automagically fall into your lap. Considering that I went to two different libraries and found that exact same information, I would call this an obvious AGF violation on your part. Last I checked, WP:V requires that information merely be verifiable, not that it's made easily accessible to all who come across it. I'm only looking at the long-term picture here in saying this. Reliable sources have recently reported that we're officially in a billion-website world, with many of those websites struggling to stay relevant to readers. As I was around the net prior to the painful death of newsgroups, it's easy to see that Wikipedia isn't exempt from possibly facing that same fate. That many active members of the community view this as a front for/mirror of the same dis/mis/non-information found everywhere else on the web RATHER THAN an information resource doesn't help matters any. Nor does it help when the most active editors assume the stance of being self-appointed "guardians" who constantly place an extraordinary burden on less active and casual editors who seek to move content forward rather than backward. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 17:38, 23 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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