Talk:Falklands War

Probably unimportant, but "Guerra de *las* Malvinas"?

I am 32 years old, from Buenos Aires, and I'm yet to hear or read a native Spanish speaker include the plural feminine article in the name of this armed conflict.

Looks to me as a bona fide mistake from someone who speaks Spanish as a second language, or it may just be a calc from their mother tongue.

Either way, somehow the offending article seems to have propagated even to the Spanish wiki.

Did anybody else think the inclusion of the article sounds rather awkward in Spanish? Cheers. 190.247.206.108 (talk) 09:40, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

What is it called in Argentina? Roger 8 Roger (talk) 09:52, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Everyone here says "Guerra de Malvinas", but I also believe that's the case for every Spanish speaker.

You would say "Las Malvinas" and "Las Islas Malvinas", but "Guerra de Malvinas" without the article. Articles are confusing, I know, but including it in this case is something I'd expect maybe from a Ukrainian (as they omit many that are required and insert some where they don't belong), but never from a native speaker. 190.247.206.108 (talk) 10:09, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

And it's not just a matter every-day speech. Look at this, verbatim within an article of legislation, straight from the official archive:

https://servicios.infoleg.gob.ar/infolegInternet/anexos/50000-54999/50278/norma.htm 190.247.206.108 (talk) 10:17, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

The Spanish Wikipedia uses [1] Guerra de las Malvinas, the Spanish translation was provided by our Argentine colleagues rather than it being a mistake by an English speaker. Because of silly edit wars we've had in the past I'd advise on holding off on any changes since the language guideline in MOS specifies current text, so a wider change in policy is required. @Cambalachero:, @Kahastok: I've pinged other editors as I'm currently taking a wikibreak due to family problems. You might get me via email and I will try to look in occasionally. WCM_email 11:15, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

In the original message I mentioned the awkwardness somehow propagated to the Spanish wiki. Also, the Spanish wiki suffers from a lack of adherence to rules and conventions of orthography and punctuation, and is gravely plagued by calcs and poor translations of the better produced English articles. In fact, you just have to take a look at the Spanish talk page on the war and you would see how much was borrowed from the English one to replace entire sections that were brief, biased by the influence of irredentist activists and had an absolute lack of eloquence. I’ll make the point to have it fixed there as well.

I hope I explained myself better this time. 190.247.206.108 (talk) 11:38, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

I also think silly edit wars shouldn’t stop us from having correct articles. I am ignorant, but I find it hard to believe someone will start a foolish edit war on account of replacing a weird calc with the proper expression that represents how all Spanish speakers (jurists included) actually talk. 190.247.206.108 (talk) 11:56, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

All interesting. I recall the debate about an indefinite article used by JFK, wrongly or rightly.[2] Also of interest, if you are correct, is how a simple error of fact, that at first sight looks plausible, can spread like wildfire and become ingrained into people's minds without question and is hard to change. Besides getting the opinion of native speakers I suppose we should get two or three examples from reliable secondary sources, which is the ultimate guide, not what Spanish speakers actually say. You have provided one source already, thanks. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 13:09, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, it wasn’t my intention to have my suggestion be accepted at face value. I saw this in your article and then I was surprised and definitely confused (made me question my sanity for an instant) when I found it was the same in Spanish, with also every Romance language wikis having a literal word by word translation (although in most cases the article is included in a contraction with the preposition - delle, das, etc). I wanted to make sure I’m not the only one that finds that phrase odd. Also, first ever attempt to change the wiki; so sorry.

I’ll get a couple sources more and get back to you later. Thanks for your attention. 190.247.206.108 (talk) 16:00, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, I was also wondering what’s the point in providing an awkward translation to the language of the other side if it doesn’t match the actual vernacular expression? Even if it was the case that in Spain it sounded natural, it’s off and better left out. Argentines of every walk of life absolutely leave the definite article out, I just need to gather sources or get the attention of my countrymen.

But it is exactly like you said. How did such a simple error to catch get so far?

My money is on hypercorrection by contagion from Romance languages that can contract the feminine article (maybe? - Spanish only contracts the masculine art.)

Hopefully someone much wiser can shed some light. Thanks again. 190.247.206.108 (talk) 16:16, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

State-owned research institution:

https://santafe.conicet.gov.ar/guerra-de-malvinas-39-anos/

Fact-checking publication:

https://chequeado.com/el-explicador/a-40-anos-de-la-guerra-de-malvinas-5-desinformaciones-que-circularon-durante-la-guerra/

Federal government website:

https://www.argentina.gob.ar/educacion/efemerides/2-abril-malvinas

British media group:

https://www.bbc.com/mundo/noticias-internacional-60297592 190.247.206.108 (talk) 16:36, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, this was the relevant BBC article:

https://www.bbc.com/mundo/noticias-america-latina-61793378

Institute of aviation instruction:

http://www.eam.iua.edu.ar/eam/guerra-de-malvinas/

National institute of geography:

https://www.ign.gob.ar/content/40-a%C3%B1os-de-la-guerra-de-malvinas

A might not be gone fishing after all. 190.247.206.108 (talk) 16:47, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Calc means calcium or calculator. What do you mean by it? B61:595B:C909|2A00:23C8:8FB1:F600:E09D:8B61:595B:C909 (talk) 10:20, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Probably means calque. Alansplodge (talk) 12:05, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

I've made the change. If it's wrong it can always be changed back again. Kahastok talk 21:46, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

Infobox

The infobox has only the UK and Argentina as belligerents. I suggest that the Falkland Islands are added under the UK, with Rex Hunt added as a leader under the Falkland Islands flag. Mjroots (talk) 13:08, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Mobilization of the Federal Penitentiary Service during the war

Members of Argentina's Federal Penitentiary Service were mobilized when the war started. They were organized into an infantry company and attached to the XI Infantry Brigade, and nicknamed "black necks" due to their unique prison guard uniforms which the rest of the army didn't have. During the war they guarded strategic locations in and around Rio Gallegos against potential British commando raids. Would it be OK to mention this in the article, provided I find an acceptable source? I think its an interesting detail.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_Federal_Penitentiary_Service Bob meade (talk) 22:08, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Nomination of Proposed nuclear bombing of Córdoba for deletion

I have nominated the article Proposed nuclear bombing of Córdoba, which is related to this topic, for deletion. Please feel free to comment at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Proposed nuclear bombing of Córdoba. Kahastok talk 16:38, 24 May 2024 (UTC)