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Why are we only using a biased media like Washington post for the claiming that the Airstrike failed?
Washington post is biased and clearly against India. Why is Wikipedia this biased against India? 103.218.133.35 (talk) 08:03, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
2405:201:A423:B03D:5DBB:7067:FEDE:A02D (talk) 01:59, 19 May 2024 (UTC)Modi didn't reduce spending on public welfare programs and he didn't abolish or destroy labour and environmental laws.This is a straight up lie.[reply]
Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Note that there are multiple references confirming welfare cuts in the economy section, and citations about environmental cuts in the environment section. Jamedeus (talk) 02:49, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 May 2024[edit]
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He was also portrayed in Film ARTICLE 370 alongside Amit Shah Jainsanyam08 (talk) 17:18, 20 May 2024 (UTC) Jainsanyam08 (talk) 17:18, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 19:21, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Modi is considered complicit by (whom) in the 2002 Gujarat riots?[edit]
Brought some clarity by adding few words for this line in the lead.
Modi administration is considered complicit (by whom) in the 2002 Gujarat riots?
Considered complicit not just by the scholars but also by the court of India who handed punishments to some BJP members and also handed punishments to the members of other Sangh Parivar organisations like Bajrang Dal who operated under the command of the then BJP government in centre. Capitals00 (talk) 12:20, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
1. Supreme counrt of India rejected modi governments role in gujarat riots[1]
2. Centre was rulted by UPA and not BJP during that time Afv12e (talk) 18:41, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There are a good number of Sangh Parivar members who are out of jail now because they have spent their time in jail. For a name, look at those Bilkis Bano convicts who are currently missing.[1][2]
It was BJP government in centre when the riots happened in 2002. Capitals00 (talk) 02:05, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
1. Does arresting someone belongs to BJP party spent their time in jail makes Modi administration is considered complicit ?
2. Modi administration was in the state power
By whom Modi administration is considered complicit (by whom) in the 2002 Gujarat riots? Afv12e (talk) 18:26, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Indian court or International court of justice or UN or anybody has said that - Modi administration is considered complicit in gujarat riots.
This is like saying : Person A has been responsible for killing person B , even though NO courts in the world has ever said a verdict like that.
Then how can someone come up and say that person A killed B ? Afv12e (talk) 18:32, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please read WP:YESPOV, and also read the scholarly sources cited for that statement. Vanamonde93 (talk) 20:16, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is stupid to say that Wikipedia relays on 'scholarly articles’ on crime and convictions , completely going against what courts of the world has given the verdict.
For crimes and convictions how can you rely on ‘scholarly articles‘ and not on the court verdicts? Afv12e (talk) 13:05, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For one thing, because an entire government is never tried by a court; the court cases were for individuals. Secondary sources are the only ones who can meaningfully analyze the broader patterns. But in any case, you are expressing a problem with our policies on sourcing, and you need to raise that at WP:VPP, or the talk page of a specific policy. Vanamonde93 (talk) 16:21, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Verdicts of courts in a country don't invalidate what reliable sources have written about it. And on wikipedia, we go by what reliable sources say. — hako9 (talk) 18:09, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
ok, then can we mention that :
Modi administration is considered complicit in the 2002 Gujarat riots by various scholarly articles while Indian court invalidate this
This would clear the confusion of by whom?Afv12e (talk) 01:24, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Won't happen because court considers Modi administration to have illegally helped the criminals involved in these riots.[3]Capitals00 (talk) 03:18, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Aljaseera source says : Not done by modi's administration during the riot, but Gujarat government after that. Even though in Centre modi is in power, it was Gujarat state government who did that.
How come action after the riot, which was not during modi at state government responsible to say that 'Modi administration is considered complicit in the 2002 Gujarat riots' ? Afv12e (talk) 03:51, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Reliable sources suggest that Modi was behind the riots. Wikipedia is not bound to accept what Indian courts are saying. GrabUp - Talk 09:50, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Indian courts have no jurisdiction to invalidate reliable sources on wikipedia and they have better things to do. You seem to not understand how wikipedia works. — hako9 (talk) 09:29, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
+1 to hako9, that's why people who have no knowledge about Modi should be confused about who fixed the "complicity". As the "Reliable Source" and the reliable sources covering Supreme courts judgement both have opposing views. In order to maintain WP:LIVE, WP:NPOV and to keep WP:PURPOSE
its mandatory to mention that Modi administration is considered complicit in the 2002 Gujarat riots by various scholarly articles, while the Indian Supreme court appointed special investigation team didn't find any evidence against Modi in connection to the riots.
Proceeding with the change, any further conflict or revert should escalate this discussion. BlackOrchidd (talk) 17:17, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@BlackOrchidd: The discussion is not yet over. How can you add this on your own and mention in your edit summary: "As per the discussion"? Do you have consensus to add this? No! How can you do that? GrabUp - Talk 17:28, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Apologies, I didn't see this discussion. Either way, the change is not acceptable. On wikipedia, we can state judicial outcomes but they are not considered authoritative which is why it is included later in the lead. And, of course, it is not just scholarly sources that consider Modi to be complicit. A rewrite is fine but this particular one was very poorly written.RegentsPark (comment) 17:35, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Modi administration has been considered complicit in the 2002 Gujarat riots by various scholarly articles, although a special investigation team appointed by the Indian Supreme Court found no evidence against Modi in connection to the riots
How about this? This present a balanced view. Afv12e (talk) 18:05, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I find it quite annoying that the editors proposing changes here do not appear to have read the paragraph they wish to change, let alone the rest of the article. Two sentences later, our article states "A Special Investigation Team appointed by the Supreme Court of India in 2012 found no evidence to initiate prosecution proceedings against him", which is substantively identical to the proposed additions above, as well as a more appropriate use of in-text attribution. Vanamonde93 (talk) 19:20, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To your knowledge there are different levels of courts in India. So the sentence 'The Modi administration has been considered complicit' is ambiguous and the proposed change combing the two sentences make it clear composite by who ? Afv12e (talk) 20:08, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think the point you're missing is that the verdict of a court does not matter and is not something that is considered on wikipedia. We can mention the verdict but not use it to increase or decrease the level of complicity. Since the verdict is already mentioned, there really is nothing else we need to do. RegentsPark (comment) 21:55, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"court does not matter and is not something that is considered on wikipedia" Thats a pretty vague & irresponsible comment by Admin @RegentsPark.
The threshold for inclusion on Wikipedia is whether material is attributable to a reliable published source, not whether it is true.
The courts order are not directly asked to be cited , courts order are only facts whether true or not. They must be mentioned in the lead. Otherwise a common reader may confuse. Not mentioning courts judgement published by reliable secondary source in the lead and also not attributing this line His administration is considered complicit in the 2002 Gujarat riots is a gross violation of NPOV [User:BlackOrchidd|BlackOrchidd]] (talk) 04:25, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Are you really saying that Sangh Parivar members who were convicted of theit crimes in the riots are not connected to Modi administration? See WP:RGW. Capitals00 (talk) 06:10, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
how can someone say that 'if somebody who is a member of bjp is arrested or punished in any crime, then Modi administration is responsible for that ?' Afv12e (talk) 12:54, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What about in the event of mass arrests? GrabUp - Talk 12:56, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
even if all the BJP members are arrested and punished, how come it is correlated to Modi administration ? Afv12e (talk) 12:58, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Because the BJP and the Modi administration are the same. Modi is in power under the BJP party, so the BJP is in power. It is accurate to refer to either the BJP administration or the Modi administration, as Modi controls or leads the BJP, making him accountable and closely correlated. GrabUp - Talk 13:13, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
BJP and the Modi administration are the same.
This is nonsense ! Afv12e (talk) 13:28, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The court judgement is in the lead. I struggle to take a comment seriously that doesn't acknowledge that. Vanamonde93 (talk) 15:53, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 May 2024[edit]
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He initiated and oversaw the world's largest toilet-building program under the Swachh Bharat Abhiyan (Clean India Mission), significantly improving sanitation and public health across the country [2][3][4]Afv12e (talk) 01:47, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Can't, especially due to significant corruption involved in this entire project. The lead already notes that Modi "Modi began a high-profile sanitation campaign". Capitals00 (talk) 03:19, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
how come corruption has anything to do with the above sentence highlighting improving sanitation and public health across the country. The above sentence never said it was 100% corruption free. In india no projects are corruption free! Afv12e (talk) 03:54, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
He initiated and oversaw a large-scale toilet-building program under the Swachh Bharat Abhiyan (Clean India Mission), which aimed to improve sanitation and public health across the countryAfv12e (talk) 17:52, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If I were you, I would stop working here and on other topics related to Indian politics until your AE discussion is completed. Valereee (talk) 19:19, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 May 2024[edit]
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He, has been instrumental in developing the country's road infrastructure, overseeing the construction of a record number of roads and highways during his tenure. Compared to the previous United Progressive Alliance (UPA) government, the Modi administration has significantly accelerated highway construction. Data from the Ministry of Road Transport and Highways indicates that the average road construction rate has increased from 11.67 km per day under the UPA to 36.5 km per day under the Modi government[5][6]. This unprecedented growth in road infrastructure has not only improved connectivity across the country but has also driven economic development and reduced travel times significantly. Afv12e (talk) 01:51, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Mainly done by private companies. What you are citing are godi media sources. You should read third-party sources. You can see read this for now. Capitals00 (talk) 03:20, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
you can see fact check here, not 200% but by 148% increased
Re: has been instrumental in developing the country's road infrastructure, overseeing the construction of a record number of roads and highways during his tenure. Compared to the previous United Progressive Alliance (UPA) government, the Modi administration has significantly accelerated highway construction. Data from the Ministry of Road Transport and Highways indicates that the average road construction rate has increased from 11.67 km per day under the UPA to 36.5 km per day under the Modi government. This unprecedented growth in road infrastructure has not only improved connectivity across the country but has also driven economic development and reduced travel times significantly. @Afv12e, this is incredibly promotional in tone. It sounds like a press release. No, we cannot add anything like that into any Wikipedia article, and honestly it's making me wonder whether you need to declare a WP:COI. Valereee (talk) 17:38, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Modi administration has overseen development in the country's road infrastructure, with data from the Ministry of Road Transport and Highways showing an increase in the average road construction rate from 11.67 km per day under the previous United Progressive Alliance (UPA) government to 36.5 km per day. This growth in road infrastructure has improved connectivity and contributed to economic development by reducing travel times
I just noticed that words like these are considered promotional in wikipedia.
How about the edited one above ? Afv12e (talk) 17:41, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Still sounds like a press release from his government, to me. Valereee (talk) 17:44, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
how about this ? Hope that this is not against wikipedia's promotional policy. I'm citing a GOOD thing of Modi , and I hope it wont be taken as PROMOTION
Under the Modi administration, the development of the country's road infrastructure has increased. Data from the Ministry of Road Transport and Highways indicates that the average road construction rate rose from 11.67 km per day under the previous United Progressive Alliance (UPA) government to 36.5 km per day. This increase in road construction has improved connectivity and reduced travel times.Afv12e (talk) 17:49, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 May 2024[edit]
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Narendra Modi's strategic foreign policy enabled India to secure significant quantities of discounted Russian oil during the Russia-Ukraine war, despite international sanctions against Russia. This move not only provided economic relief to India but also highlighted Modi's adeptness in navigating complex geopolitical landscapes.[7][8][9][10][11]Afv12e (talk) 02:25, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing impressive. Under Modi administration, India has been mainly selling the oil they purchased to Europe at record levels and those involved in the process are private companies. Now we are in 2024, the situation is no longer the same.[4]Capitals00 (talk) 03:21, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
so what? it was a economic relief to India. It was a huge diplomatic success despite international sanctions against Russia.
Yes we are in 2024, why did in the lead added past years covid and CAA protests ? Afv12e (talk) 04:02, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Because CAA protests really happened unlike the non-existing example of some exceptional foreign policy which you are claiming for the Modi government. Abhishek0831996 (talk) 07:51, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I quote the references Afv12e (talk) 16:11, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@RegentsPark I kindly request you to look at these edit requests submitted Afv12e (talk) 16:18, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Afv12e: I don't see consensus for adding this to the article. RegentsPark (comment) 16:25, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Afv12e, same here: Narendra Modi's strategic foreign policy enabled India to secure significant quantities of discounted Russian oil during the Russia-Ukraine war, despite international sanctions against Russia. This move not only provided economic relief to India but also highlighted Modi's adeptness in navigating complex geopolitical landscapes. Same. Please declare your COI per WP:COI. Valereee (talk) 17:40, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
ok rephrased to remove words which are promotional to wikipedia.
I have rephrased it highlighting facts :
During the Russia-Ukraine war, India's foreign policy under Narendra Modi facilitated the purchase of discounted Russian oil, despite international sanctions against Russia. This action provided economic benefits to India. Afv12e (talk) 17:44, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
His account of helping his father sell tea at the Vadnagar railway station has not been reliably corroborated.
Why should this be highlighted in the lead if it is not reliable ? Afv12e (talk) 18:11, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Afv12e: The text means that Modi claimed he helped his father sell tea, but Wikipedia mentions that this is not reliably corroborated, as no reliable secondary sources have confirmed it. GrabUp - Talk 18:22, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
it is not conveying the meaning and it like mean. How about rewriting this like this:
His account of helping his father sell tea at the Vadnagar railway station highlights his humble beginnings and strong work ethic, although some sources have debated its precise detailsAfv12e (talk) 18:37, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
“highlights his humble beginnings and strong work ethic” Is totally promotional. This can’t be added. GrabUp - Talk 12:59, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
His account of helping his father sell tea at the Vadnagar railway station has become a well-known part of his personal narrative, though some sources have debated its precise details.
OK, how about this? Afv12e (talk) 13:01, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Invited in by Grabup. I'm afraid I have little understanding of the relative importance of this anecdote for inclusion in the lead, but is the reason we're including it there simply that he's been accused of inventing his 'humble working-class beginnings' story? His brother probably isn't a reliable source, and I see we don't have an article on Janbharat Times, which is our only source for that? I would say that if literally the only place we're finding this negative info about a BLP is a quote from his brother in media we don't even have an article about, it not only shouldn't be in the lead, it shouldn't be in the article. Valereee (talk) 15:52, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've removed it per BLP concerns. Please discuss before adding it back. Valereee (talk) 15:55, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Valereee: Actually, I did not invite you for this; I invited you for the above thread. GrabUp - Talk 15:58, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 May 2024[edit]
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level-5 vital article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
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Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Note that there are multiple references confirming welfare cuts in the economy section, and citations about environmental cuts in the environment section. Jamedeus (talk) 02:49, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 19:21, 20 May 2024 (UTC)