Talk:Four-leaf clover

56 leaf clover[edit]

Is the National Geographic site (includes photo) good enough source for the 56 leaf clover Shigeo Obara found? Also i probably wont be back on this page so could somebody add it here if possible? 122.107.100.34 (talk) 01:34, 3 December 2009 (UTC) ~~hello world im ugly man giant dodo bird brains.~~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 164.83.124.192 (talk) 15:24, 18 February 2015 (UTC) Vandalism, editing experiment, or spy-craft communication struck thru by me.--Jerzy•t 03:21, 2 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Various discussion[edit]

Because of its non-neutral POV and the fact that it is merely repeating what is stated elsewhere in the article about them being a rare find, I removed the last paragraph: " Some people deny the fact that four-leafed clovers exist, this is preposterous. They are a very well documented, freak occurrence." will381796 19:02, 17 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No support is given for the claim that four leaf clovers are a result of a mutation. It's unlikely that it is, since four leaf clovers are scattered about, so they don't share a common descent. They might be the result of a recessive gene, or (probably more likely, given the very low frequency), a developmental irregularity. 68.6.40.203 09:26, 29 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, cannot find any scientific proof on the web that the four leaf clover has genetic basis. The fact that people think they are more likely in certain patches suggests that it is, but the very low observed frequency suggests that any resessive gene (given a few Hardy-Weinberg assumptions]] that could cause it would suffer a high extinction rate and thus disappear completely. Patchy environmental factors could, however, cause the developmental abnormality. The fact that it is rare does, however, suggest that the four leaf morphology offers a lower natural fitness than the three leaf variety, otherwise a mutation would actually spread that causes it. This is a fine case of the 'less is better' principle.

The above could be nonsense, of course. If anyone knows of a study that proves a genetic basis or has worked on it, please add it here, as the question probably bugs a lot of people:D .--ChrisJMoor 02:29, 14 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, what is written above about extinction of recessive genes and Hardy-Weinberg is nonsense. Recessive genes do not become extinct, but rather an equilibrium is established. Algorythmic 11:09, 22 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I live in the UK, but I lived in Berne, Switzerland for one year. Four leaved clovers there were almost common - easy to find. In the UK, they're very rare. Toby Douglass 16:29, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Due to the fact that clovers are connected by a common root system, it is highly unlikely that four leaves is genetic. Paramecium13 (talk) 20:43, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Of the Hundreds I have Found Very Seldom do I find more than one on a stem. (see this Example). My guess is Genetic Factors ... Carl McCall 14:26, 17 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Swastika

is that a necessary link on the bottom of the page??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.234.33.43 (talk) 01:18, 20 February 2008 (UTC) Legends tell a tale of a man who stumbles and picks up a four leaf clover, sticks it up his nose while chanting a special spell will summon a demon horde that will obey every wish of the summoner. The last time someone has done this was named Adolf Hitler.[reply]

With great luck, comes great responsibility. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 154.20.61.35 (talk) 04:13, 24 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Poor Sources, Doubtful Statistics[edit]

The claim "It has been estimated that there are approximately 10,000 three-leaf clovers for every four-leaf clover," is true. That estimate has been made. But even though the estimate has been made, it's still from a really poor source. The source listed is an Ask Yahoo! page which cites an About page which cites a Washington Post article which cites a woman who makes a living selling four-leaf clover and similar items. Surely, someone who sells them for a living would stand to gain if we thought they were more rare than they are. That alone is a reason to doubt what she reports. And, although it's only anecdotal, I'd like to suggest some evidence that her estimate is wildly exaggerated. Tuesday I had some free time after classes, and I went four-leaf clover hunting. I found about three dozen four-leaf clover in less than half an hour. I certainly didn't examine 360,000 clover in that short of a time. That would have been 200 clover a second! The herbicides used at my school seem to make four-leaf clover much more common than normal (Yes, I washed my hands after playing in the pretty field of poisoned clover.), but I have enjoyed searching for and finding four-leaf clover all across the United States and am suspicious that they are as rare as 1 in 10,000 anywhere. I would guess that one in 100 is more accurate. --Drkslvr (talk) 00:16, 8 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

i agree i have found dozens in one area 74.37.228.44 (talk) 18:43, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And yet it took me a year of searching dozens of different sites, probably sifting through many thousands of clovers, just to find a single one! And it was my cat that led me to this particular 4-leaf clover, which was not even in a patch, but rather, on a single multi-stemmed plant that's growing out from b/w two rocks in my backyard. joepa^T 18:29, 3 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Dubious Marsilea allegation[edit]

The statement about Marsilea villosa being sold as four-leaf clover seems highly improbable, as it has been an endangered species for some years ("Fewer than 2,000 individual plants in four populations remain and the plant was federally listed as an endangered species in 1992.") It's ironic that this is the "Did you know" fact that has been picked out to highlight the article on the Main_Page today. Incidentally, there are several cultivars of Trifolium repens (the UK's "white clover") which reliably produce four or more leaflets: Trifolium repens 'Quinquefolium' (aka 'Pentaphyllum'), 'Quadrifolium' and 'Purpurascens Quadrifolium' (aka 'Tetraphyllum Purpureum' which is particularly widely available (in the UK horticultural trade) - and, presumably, 'Saint Patrick'? SiGarb | Talk 17:07, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have seen Oxalis tetraphylla sold in a four-leaf-clover-growing kit as "lucky shamrocks". I guess if you are one of those that believe in the four-leaf clover's alleged properties then you are apt to purchase most any rubbish a clever huckster peddles. -Thibbs (talk) 00:58, 1 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Bible Clover[edit]

I've seen on documentories that a man (monk?) once placed a four leaf clover between every page of a bible. This would be an interesting fact to be included if this can be verified. Iciac 07:51, 16 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree. I did this same feat with my high school calculus book and I am certifiably WP:NN. -Thibbs (talk) 00:41, 1 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not So Impossible[edit]

Dear Readers, Finding a four leaf clover isn't as impossible as the page says. In fact, i just found two 4-leaf clovers and 1 5-leaf clover in my back yard. In the elapsed time of about a year, i have found over 50 four or more-leafed clovers. The most leaves i have ever seen on a clover is 8 but i believe people found an 18-leaf clover. As for advice to find some lucky clovers, just keep a sharp eye out for them and always believe in luck. If you belive anything can happen. :)

Sincerely, Kerri H., 8th Grade Greenport Jr. High Student —Preceding unsigned comment added by Superx8811 (talk • contribs) 20:26, August 26, 2007 (UTC)

I'm right there with Kerri H. It's nothing like 1/10,000. It's more like 1/1,000. I find them all the time. Just look for them. For a fact, I've found a six leaf clover. (I give 'em away, no point in keeping them. You generate more luck that way, too. >=]) --Secruss (talk) 01:25, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Seems like it varies a lot depending on location. My experience is that areas in which herbicides have been applied tend to harbor a much greater number of abnormal clovers (along with 2- and 3-headed and corkscrew-stem dandelions). --Pyrochem (talk) 05:30, 6 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't mean to be mean-spirited here, but let us keep in mind that Wikipedia is not a forum for personal stories however interesting they may subjectively seem. Please review this wikipolicy. -Thibbs (talk) 20:51, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Nevertheless, we do need some better sources here. As was mentioned above in this talk, the sole source of this document is pretty poor. Something about the leaves in the image don't look quite cloverish to my untrained eye. I remember looking as hard for these twenty years ago as a child and only finding one very suspect specimen. Where are the scientific studies on this? 69.95.236.40 (talk) 15:14, 15 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've found a 5 leaf clover once, sadly it got destoryed when i moved (i still have the pieces of it, i have to look for them) among with 3x 4 leaf. Some batches appear to be more likely to carry them than others.

I was hitting this page purely incidentally, and I agree that the claim of a 1:10,000 probability for a four-leaf clover to be found is definitely wrong. Heck, when I was a small kid I was collecting dozens of four-, five-, and even six-leaf clovers, and I certainly wasn't investigating ten thousands (or even millions) of plants. This is not about posting personal stories but about hinting that the source is poor (but probably there is no other). Cheers, Nageh (talk) 18:36, 4 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have found 3 six leave clover's about 10 5 leave clover's and 128 four leave clover's just in my backyard. I've have looked for them luck wasn't good until I moved to Gresham Oregon. J. Loveland —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.111.19.144 (talk) 01:13, 31 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

IMPORTANT; I am 11 years old.I once found 24 four leaf clovers in ONE day.I once found 2 five leaf clover in ONE day.I can find 4 four leaf clovers in 20 minutes.If you don't believe me,don't.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.166.153.14 (talk) 02:02, 14 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I mean....[edit]

Im just saying, is it not more likely that the people who think they see four leaf clovers all over the place are just looking at some other plant?? —Soap— 15:48, 2 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It probably is a four leaf clover, but unless you pull it upwards and inspect it carefully you can say it's a four leaf clover because a lot of times I think I find a four leaf clover but it's just 2 clovers overlapping each other. I don't know whether or not you did find all these clovers, but if you just glanced at it don't consider it a 4-leaf clover 104.32.224.146 (talk) 21:27, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Inconsistent Grammar?[edit]

So, within the very first sentence, the grammar is inconsistent. Is it "X-leaf clover," "X-leaved clover," or does it vary from case to case? --TJ09 (talk) 23:58, 23 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed -- I tried to come here to settle a grammatical dispute about whether it was four-leaf or four-leaved, and the page has not only not settled the issue, it has made me more confused. Laws of Fizzix (talk) 00:02, 24 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Two-leaf clover[edit]

Is it possible for a two-leaf clover to form?

Having seen a lot of seeds germinate, I would conclude that two-leaved seedlings appear to be very common. But I raise an eyebrow at the second generation of leaves. When the third and fourth leaves in clover form, how do they do so? I hope that someone out there has already used a camera and documented the growth of leaves in the common clover, and related it to the position of the sun above. (Yes, you would have to do this indoors, in a laboratory setting, and position the artificial sun or growth lamp exactly.) The first two leaves would form the plane against which to plot the series of leaves that come.

There ought to be a strong genetic factor limiting the common clover to exactly three leaves. If someone can find any sources for this kind of study, please add it to the main page of this article. The main page of this article would be improved with a comment on the growth of the leaves from seed to bloom.

And speaking of which, do Four-leave clovers have blooms that look like ordinary clover in bloom? 216.99.219.70 (talk) 20:48, 19 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. Clovers with two leaflets are possible. 1-leaf clovers are also possible. I'm not so sure about the existence of 0-leaf clovers, though. 8-leaf clover (talk) 19:12, 13 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Cultural references[edit]

I'm deleting the section altogether. It was unusually bad even for such a section: some other plant being the answer to a crossword puzzle in a certain episode of an obscure TV series; a Futurama episode; one out of a thousand logotypes based on the four-leaf clover ... — IMO the "see also" section is mostly name-dropping too, but I won't attempt to address that. JöG (talk) 22:52, 17 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Four leaf clovers are so RARE people just PICK THEM?[edit]

If rare four leaf clovers are found and PICKED by superstitious people... they will become even rarer! If in any natural clover population there are ALWAYS four leaf clovers til someone finds them, it would naturally point to it being the species male, not just a variation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.134.157.238 (talk) 17:02, 7 February 2012 (UTC) The question as to whether the growth of four-leaf Red Clovers occurs by pure chance has been answered. Work done by Michael E. Zeidler of Milwaukee, Wisconsin, U.S.A. has shown that the mutation that produces four-leaf and five-leaf clovers can be isolated and concentrated. Seeds for the Red Clover (Trifolium pratense, L.) were collected in summer 2012 from clover plants that grew four-leaf clovers and were pollinated from other plants that grew four-leaf clovers. A sample of seventeen clover plants grown with these seeds has resulted in eights clovers plants that have one or more four-leaf or five-leaf clovers. At this writing the seventeen plants have 29 four-leaf and 8 five-leaf clovers. One of the plants currently has 9 four-leaf and 6 five-leaf clovers. The first four-leaf clover appeared 80 days after seed germination. This botany experiment has similarities to the plant experimentation of Gregor Mendel (1822-1884) the Austrian botanist. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.64.54.51 (talk) 01:19, 27 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It's only 1:10,000. It's not that rare. There are probably trillions of clovers in only one country. 104.32.224.146 (talk) 21:30, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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First reference to the belief that four-leaf clovers brought good luck[edit]

The article suggests that the first ever reference to this popular belief can be found in a child's letter to St Nicholas Magazine in 1877. It appears, however, that mystical beliefs tied to the plant go back all the way to Celtic druids, then later the middle age, when children believed that finding one would allow them to see fairies. The first known written reference to four-leaf clovers bringing good luck seems to have been made by Sir John Melton in 1620: "If a man walking in the fields find any four-leaved grass, he shall in a small while after find some good thing." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.222.153.78 (talk) 21:53, 23 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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