Talk:The Drifters

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discography[edit]

where is it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.66.5.31 (talk) 14:48, 22 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

QUERY JAMES (POPPA) CLARKE[edit]

I'm writing a novel that takes place in the '60s. I want to include a little part about a friend of mine who was in the Five Crowns and then briefly in the Drifters. His name is James (Poppa) Clark(e). His brother was John (Sonny) Clark(e), who was also in the Five Crowns. (I'm not sure if there was a final "e" in Clark.) James Clarke moved on to the Drifters, but was kicked off the band "just before they hit," Poppa told me, due to his drug use.

You have an excellent page on the Drifters! But unfortunately Poppa didn't make the cut, even in your page. I would like to find out when Poppa was cut from the group, and what they had been singing up to that point. I know he toured with them, and I believe was with them when they cut some sides, though as he said, he was fired before their first big hit. I also need some lyrics from that time. Poppa would sing them, and I want to put him in a scene in the book, drawn from life, where Poppa sang and reminisced. I would really appreciate any help you all could give. Thanks. I am Joe Bryak, justnufjoe@aol.com

I just added some info, and there's a little bit on James Clark in there, hope that helps a little. JeremyMcCracken 17:13, 10 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Yes and hello my name is steven gokey and I sat in on a Drifter's concert as a drummer and vocalist with a group of local muscians whose names I will not mention here. The Drifter's were scheduled to appear at the Franklin County Fair in Malone, New York on or around August 28 or 29 of 1981. Their backup band Danny and the Junior's bus broke down in Rochester, New York, so a group of local muscians was put together to fit the bill that night. We must have covered just about everybody's tunes that night. From the Temptations to the Spinners to The four Tops the Contours Marvin Gaye The Righteous Brothers as I sang Unchained Melody. I have my own version I guess. The situation is this if someone cxan convince me that that is not my voice if those are not my rhythims on drums then I think the Tech engineer made a duplicate tape and sold us off as original atrists. And one more thing Ben E. King did not attend that night. thank you and sorry for cutting in. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.101.53 (talk) 08:35, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Removed statements[edit]

I removed some statements from the "Splinters" section which seemed POV to me. First, the Hemmings-Lewis group was called fake, however there is much debate about what groups are authentic or not (for example, Hemmings and Lewis claim to be authentic because they were in the group back into the 1970s; Is Beary Hobbs' group fake because he is no longer alive?; Can any group, even with original members (e.g. Charley Thomas) be considered authentic?) I left the backing tapes statement, since it's very possible, although it should be noted that many groups, authentic or not, don't use live musicians on recordings or at shows. I also removed the "inaccurate" part about Hendricks' website- if it was in reference to the history of the group, most splinter groups stretch the history to appear to be the "real" group (take for instance the bio page of the Hemmings-Lewis group, which says the group split and these two returned to the US with Faye Treadwell forming a new lineup- in reality, Ray Lewis was out over a decade before Hemmings left). JeremyMcCracken 17:25, 30 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Yes and hello and P.S. my name is steven gokey and my e-mail is steveng4619@verizon.net thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.101.53 (talk) 08:42, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Court case[edit]

I added a small paragraph about the current court case. It might be worth while considering to expand this to a seperate heading if further issues emerge. It might require a 'current' stub? Article reference: http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1968631,00.html (Karst 21:05, 11 December 2006 (UTC))[reply]


A group of Female singers showed up as well maybe Ronettess the Shondelles Steve steveng4619@verizon.net —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.101.53 (talk) 08:46, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Non-Stop Blathering[edit]

this article, while a noble effort at chronological facts is a mess. a better organization might be to include a list of hits/singles/albums by year and who the members were at that time.

for example, even though this was by far the most comprehensive article on the Drifters that i found on the web...it does not mention "On Broadway" and who was the lead vocalist on the tune.

a list of hits categorized by year detailing who lead vocalist was and who backing members were at the given time would be a lot more useful that the non-stop blathering on the turnover rate of this great group that the current article is.

example:

1963

"On Broadway" [a] lead vocalist, [b,c,d,e] backing vocalists

This is certainly a problem with this article, though it is a bit uncharitable to call it blathering. Someone obviously went to a lot of work to assemble the facts necessary to give us the genealogy that appears in this article. I am just not certain whether this could be better presented, or if it just doesn't have a place in an encyclopedia. I thought the information might be presented as a chronological chart of the membership in each lineup, but after I analyzed the data, I had a list of over sixty lineups. As much as I would hate to lose this data, which could be invaluable for anyone doing research, I am afraid that the best thing to do may be to use the approach of the cited Rolling Stone article which simply states,

"Yet for all their fantastic records, the Drifters had the least stable lineup of any of the great vocal groups. They were in essence a group of hired guns, overseen by their management."

This is quite common in the recording industry where the name is a legally owned brand name rather than the artists known and loved by the public. The artists have notability. When it is not the same as the brand, the brand is not usually notable.

A good place to start with a rewrite of this article would be to use the Vocal Group Hall of Fame writeups and the Rolling Stone article as a foundation of research. There is a lot of good information there.

I thought about tackling this task, but I really did not want to do a major revision without a consensus. My comments on NPOV in the NPOV section below contain additional ideas for the rewrite.Jkolak (talk) 09:35, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fair use rationale for Image:Drifters - The Christmas Song (1964).ogg[edit]

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BetacommandBot 21:04, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Citations & References[edit]

See Wikipedia:Footnotes for an explanation of how to generate footnotes using the <ref(erences/)> tags Nhl4hamilton (talk) 04:34, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Conflict of Interest?[edit]

I can understand this article is in need of clean up regarding neutrality, but there's no evidence of conflict of interest regarding the matter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kenneth Hardeman (talk • contribs) 10:30, 26 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This type of tag usually get added when there are conflicts regarding name ownership. While this article is not as bad as the edit war going on in The Foundations article, this article does appear to follow the genealogy of the UK Drifters under Lundquist and Luderman as the real Drifters with an aside to the Pinkney Drifters and a belated acknowledgement that the UK Drifters lost the right to the name in 2008, and then an afterthought on the other Drifter splinters.
I would have to follow the same line of reasoning in The Foundations article. If you follow the links to the Vocal Group Hall of Fame awards and the Rolling Stone article, you will see that the groups with notability are the Clyde McPhatter Drifters and the Ben King Drifters, though a nod is also given to C. Thomas and J. Moore. These first two Drifters are certainly notable, so the article should primarily be a history of those Drifters, with an afterword explaining that several members went on to form splinter groups, with a brief comment on the current legal situation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jkolak (talk • contribs) 09:22, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I went ahead and made a start on the changes discussed here, and above under "blathering". This is not a complete rework, but rather a foundation on which a quality NPOV article can be based.

What I did do, and what I did not do...

This revision is based on the original article, which means I did not fully deal with the issue of what to do about the constant flow of name changes. What I did do is try to break it up with contextual information and relevancy. I also provided infobox entries which summarize the personnel status information.

I also tried to put it into context of notability, learning from The Foundations edit war that artists with significant contributions to music history and hit songs are notable. Business entities that try to perpetuate the name without notable contributions are not notable. Therefore the first and second editions of The Drifters classic and golden eras are treated as notable. Follow ups and splinter groups should be treated in the line of "What Are They Doing Now" sections of other musical group articles. Since I have based the rework on the original article, perhaps I have not cut it down enough, but Pinkney's Original Drifters seem as notable as any as a current status of the original artists. The Splinter section as it stood dealt with this section adequately enough that I have not altered it.

The Court Case section is left largely untouched except to clean out some advertising hype from the new Treadwell organization.

Being primarily a rework of the original article, no new references are introduced. The primary sources to maintain the historical accuracy are three already cited by the article, the two Vocal Group Hall of Fame inductions and the Rolling Stone article. These three sources are a good place to start for anyone wishing to check for an impartial history of The Drifters and gain some insight into the actual notability of the group. Those sources also contain some information which is not in this article, which may be a good starting point for anyone wishing to expand the historical content of the article, thus reducing the percentage of text devoted to personnel changes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jkolak (talk • contribs) 07:05, 31 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The conflict of interest is from edits by PMG Ltd (talk · contribs), which is the name of Treadwell's organization. Take a look at their edits. 69.221.154.10 (talk) 23:28, 3 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

First commercial Rock and Roll recording to employ strings/orchestra[edit]

Certainly "It Doesn't Matter Anymore" by Buddy Holly predates "There Goes My Baby". "It Doesn't Matter Anymore" was written by Paul Anka and recorded by Buddy Holly at the Pythian Temple Studios (Decca) using the Dick Jacobs Orchestra on October 21, 1958. It was on the Billboard chart for 14 weeks. It's highest position was #30. For reference, see Remembering Buddy: The Definitive Biography of Buddy Holly by John Goldrosen and John Beecher, ISBN-10: 0306807157 and ISBN-13: 978-0306807152, Da Capo Press (January 9, 2001).
I suppose it could be argued that "It Doesn't Matter Anymore" wasn't a Rock and Roll recording. If so, it can also be argued that "There Goes My Baby" was not one either. In late 1958, popular music was changing rapidly from the early 1955-57 sound into what many would call "Bubble Gum" music. Whatever one's perspective, they are all subjective as to categorization. Music is music in the eye (ear) of the beholder, so these things are probably moot. I feel it is inappropriate to list things as facts when they are merely opinion. If they are opinion, they should be stated as such.

Also, there is controversy over who the co-writers were. On the CD, "The Drifters 1959-1965: All-Time Greatest Hits", Leiber and Stoller do not receive credit. The co-writers were listed as Lover Patterson and George Treadwell. King used his real name of Benjamin Nelson as writer on this song. For reference, see the aforementioned CD notes, ASIN: B000002INL.
Cscj01 (talk) 17:25, 2 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Right. The Vocal Group Hall of Fame uses more conventional wording: "A song Nelson (still performing under his given name) co-wrote called "There Goes My Baby" became his first lead vocal and the lush backing arrangement made highly unorthodox (in fact, virtually unheard-of) use of a string section."Jkolak (talk) 06:45, 4 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Re-issues[edit]

In the UK, "Saturday Night At The Movies" reached #3 in the charts, but not until 1972. This song should probably have its own entry for that year in the table - was it a re-recording with Johnny Moore singing the lead? It didnt chart at all in 1964 in the UK.

Also "C'mon Over To My Place" only reached #40 in UK in 1965 - it wasnt until a re-released version in 1972 that it made #9. Again, perhaps this song should have its own entry under 1972. So the table doesnt look quite right to me at the moment. Gloveman (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 08:18, 30 March 2009 (UTC).[reply]

Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Rennell435 (talk) 23:56, 27 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Drifters (American band) → The Drifters – In the english-speaking world 'The Drifters' are exactly this vocal group. Japanese comedy (!), in japanese language, can never be so notable as this group. No use for the 'American band' tag. The English band renamed because the Drifters here were already so well known, in 1958/9. In my opinion a vocal group is also not a band. a vocal group is accompanied by band musicians: drums, guitars, keyboards, but that is a different topic. These should be moved too: 'Template:The Drifters (American band)' and 'Book:The Drifters (American band)' E-Kartoffel (talk) 19:02, 27 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've gone ahead and done this. It seems it was moved to the disambiguated title on the argument that there's a Japanese band with the same name. Since that band doesn't seem to have an article yet, The Drifters redirected to this page anyway. Nom rightly points out that, regardless, this is the primary topic. Rennell435 (talk) 23:56, 27 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Possible former member[edit]

A reader wrote in to Wikimedia to ask about a person who may have been a former member of the Drifters. His name is Bobby Lee Harris. I'll invite them to contribute to this section with more information, in the hope that a knowledgeable editor can help look into whether that individual should be in the article.--S Philbrick(Talk) 21:40, 28 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Recent Edit[edit]

I decided to edit this sentence - "The first classic Drifters, formed by Clyde McPhatter, was inducted into the Vocal Group Hall of Fame as "The Drifters" or "The Original Drifters".[3]" since the source cited has the group listed as "The Drifters". Also the sentence is confusing since it implies the group was inducted under either name. If this edit is in error, please feel free to revert it. Thanks!THX1136 (talk) 17:00, 18 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Reading though the entire source article, both names appear. It's hard to say what was official, as the website is poorly organized and maintained. But, there's no great value in specifying "The Original Drifters" in this context, so I support the edit. Pstoller (talk)

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I just wanted to add the Drifters are my ecological theme song "Up On The Roof" to get to fresh air the most important aspect of of thinking, Fresh Air!!!!!!!!! I think this is the main reason most people especially Politicians are having such difficulty. Not enough fresh air!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.36.159.12 (talk) 05:00, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Studio Albums[edit]

Can someone please do a summary of their studio albums down on the discography section of this article, thanks?--twentyoverninety69 (talk) 1:34 28 February (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean by that request. There's a link to a separate article, The Drifters discography, that includes a list of studio albums. But, until the group's stint at Bell/Arista in the 1970s, the "studio albums" were just compilations of previously issued singles. So, there's nothing much to say about those beyond the track listings. The Drifters were fundamentally a singles-oriented group, not an album group. Pstoller (talk) 08:24, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Drummer[edit]

Was there a drummer by the name of Larry Duff that ever played with the drifters Eldesgirl (talk) 23:36, 8 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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