Talk:ZAKA

Untitled

Moved from article, apparently a copyvio as well as ephemeral and POV:

"

Israeli emergency response organization ZAKA will display the shattered shell of a bus that was attacked by a Palestinian suicide bomber, at the Jewish Expo 2003 in Manhattan later this month. Family members of the victims of this horrific attack are unhappy about ZAKA?s plan: N.Y. Fair to Display Bombed Israeli Bus.

Relatives of the bombing's victims are outraged, and Israeli government officials have quietly questioned the wisdom of the plans by ZAKA Rescue and Recovery, an Israeli disaster response group.

The idea is bring home the horror of the terror attacks that have plagued Israel, as well as to raise funds for ZAKA, a group of mostly ultra-Orthodox Jewish volunteers who assist ambulance crews and identify and collect body parts for burial.

In three years of Israeli-Palestinian fighting, 413 people have been killed in 102 Palestinian suicide bombings, many of them targeting city buses.

The wreckage of the bus that was blown up in Jerusalem on June 18, 2002, killing 19 people, will be displayed in Manhattan at Jewish Expo 2003, scheduled for Dec. 20-22 the start of the Hanukkah holiday.

"We want people to know what's really going on here," said ZAKA spokesman Zelig Feiner, noting that both Israel and New York have been targets of terrorism. He said the project also is designed to raise money for the organization.

Feiner said ZAKA has received Israeli complaints that the display will offset efforts at the fair to boost tourism, which has been hurt by the violence. Survivors of terror attacks and families of victims also say they're shocked by the planned display.

A spokesman for Israel's Terror Victims Association, Meir Indor, said ZAKA's display cheapens the deaths and survivors' trauma, especially because it is being done partly to raise money.

"They're marketing the blood of the people," Indor said. I?m of two minds about ZAKA?s plan. I fully understand and empathize with the family members? pain and upset. But I also think this display has the potential of awakening the media-deadened consciences of people who might otherwise wander through the fair without coming away with any new inspirations. "

To add to Recent History section: They volunteered in the aftermath of Katrina.

The acronym reminds one of the Hebrew word tzedakah and the Arabic word zakat, which mean essentially the same thing in practice: engagement in charitable causes. 204.52.215.107 20:52, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

-No! There is no connection between the words Zaka and Tsedaka. They have completely different Hebrew root words.

"Violence" section

I'm questioning the need for the assault by the one member being included in this article. It seems to have had nothing to do witht he organization, and does not reflect well on it. It seems unfair to have an attack by one member on the organizations article page. Basejumper 11:43, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree. I came here from the victim's article. The attack seems to be an emotional outburst by one or two people, very little to do with the group itself. I would support removing the whole section from this article. BTW I was very impressed with the article and the group's work. Steve Dufour 13:35, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

I went ahead and removed the section. If it's that important someone can give it its own article. Steve Dufour 13:42, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

"Controversy" section

I would like to add contents (may be a line or two) related to following news item: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/World/NSG_did_not_kill_hostage_Israel/articleshow/3786021.cms

However, i would request an experienced member to do so.

Rename to Zaka, per Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(Hebrew)?

Title basically says it. Quoting from the Abbreviations section there:

Most Hebrew abbreviations are treated as regular words for all intents and purposes. Thus, they should not be all-uppercase like English abbreviations, and there should be no apostrophes or quotation marks for separation like in Hebrew (apostrophes are okay for displaying shva however, per below). This applies both to article/section naming, and in-line transliteration. Thus:

• Zaka (Hebrew: זק"א‎‎), not ZAKA

...

It seems that our article title should be synchronized with this policy, esp. since it is used as an example... Musashiaharon (talk) 21:24, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Endorse. Thank you for discussing it before changing it. Joe407 (talk) 21:56, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

• Not support Read WP:ACRONYMTITLE. ZAKA is not an abbreviation, but rather an acronym like NASA, and NATO. --Shuki (talk) 23:38, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

It looks like the Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Hebrew) meant acronyms or roshei teivot when writing the abbreviations section there. All of the other examples listed there are roshei teivot, but are still spelled with an initial capital. Also, WP:ACRONYMTITLE seems to deal with English acronyms, as opposed to Hebrew. Musashiaharon (talk) 02:32, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Well, that's weird. On the Zaka (or ZAKA) website, it appears both as ZAKA and as Zaka (although only in text appearing in images). Musashiaharon (talk) 02:38, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Shuki - NASA & NATO are both acronyms for English full names. If Zaka stood for "Zestful Aggregation of Killed Artifices" we could use ZAKA as the article title. Joe407 (talk) 08:11, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

External links modified

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Pls clarify: to what extent is Zaka also dealing with LIVING patients?

@Vicki Rosenzweig, MathKnight, SlimVirgin, IZAK, Chefallen, Tvoz, Deborahjay, and El C: hi. I don't know if anybody does have percentage figures, but some notion of it maybe? Are they 99% into collecting body parts and identifying the dead? Or are they also paramedics to a larger degree, giving first aid, running a blood bank, etc.?

What does "identifying bodies" actually mean? How could people parachuted from Israel "identify" South Asians they had never seen before? They read the ID cards of orderly behaving corpses? In those weird alphabets? (See tsunami section.) It makes zero sense.

The article looks a bit like a smoke screen, leaving the reader with more questions than answers. Jewish and apparently Muslim religious laws seem to require every human body part to be buried, and they're dealing with that. OK. So a religious outfit. The rest is very opaque. Arminden (talk) 10:58, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

Yehuda Meshi Zahav

The founder of ZAKA, Yehuda Meshi Zahav, has been accused of sexual abuse by many individuals; this was a big scandal when it dropped, and it should probably be included. The article on Zahav himself specifically details this, and it's certainly relevant enough to be included here as well, as he was the founder and (if I remember correctly) acting lead of the organization up until 2021. I'm surprised he only comes up on this page, in the section about the alleged crematorium arson.

Multiple newspapers have covered this, I'll put some links, already archived, below.

Haaretz by Rabinowitz

Haaretz by Rabinowitz & Elk

Times of Israel by Winer

BBC

In addition to that, the Times of Israel also has an article on alleged mismanagement of charity money, which should also be mentioned somewhere. I was looking in the edit history of this page, and there used to be a "Controversy" section. Maybe that should be brought back and these things listed underneath it. GunnarBonk (talk) 02:45, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

@GunnarBonk I agree some mention of this is WP:DUE. I have added a corresponding section, also covering the controversy about some of the reports made by volunteers that turned out to be mistaken, and ZAKA's acknowledgement of the matter. Andreas JN466 17:42, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

I removed the section about Zahav. For one, this has nothing to do with Zaka, Zahav's role with Zaka, or Zaka as an organization. The appropriate place for this, if at all, is on Zahav's article. It is not WP:DUE here. While credible RS have reported on the allegations, per WP:BLPCRIME, which still applies here even though he is recently deceased, "Accusations, investigations and arrests do not amount to a conviction." We should endeavor to produce an encyclopedic article about Zaka, the human services, agency. To add the material, an editor needs to show WP:ONUS and have consensus that this would add to encyclopedia knowledge about Zaka, the subject of this article. Longhornsg (talk) 23:02, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

@Longhornsg@GunnarBonk: I don't think it's tenable to do without any mention of the matter. The controversy attracted very major media attention in Israel as well as some international coverage. Gideon Aran's Oxford University Press book about ZAKA, which was essentially written by the time the scandal happened, devotes about ten pages specifically to Meshi-Zahav and his colorful personality (p. 96ff), and further addresses the sexual abuse accusations in some detail in a two-page postscript to its preface that was rushed in just prior to publication. It's not possible to have a credible article and omit all mention of such a major controversy.

I have added a longer discussion that comments on how this relates to ZAKA, including Aran's comments, which on the whole are quite kind, and his observations on the impact the scandal had on ZAKA. See what you think. If we can't come to an agreement between ourselves, I will start a community Request for Comment to obtain wider input. Regards, Andreas JN466 12:12, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your edits Andreas, I just wanted to pop in and agree that it is certainly pertinent to mention the allegations against Zahav. It was big news in Israel, with him being the founder and head of the organization. GunnarBonk (talk) 19:41, 18 January 2024 (UTC)