Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Sydney/Suburbs

List of Sydney suburbs

moved from my user talk page

Hey Stormie,

Do you envisage having a 'nearby suburbs' table on Sydney suburb pages, like the ones at Patterson Lakes, Victoria?

If so, feel free to copy the templates used on the Wikipedia:WikiProject Melbourne/Suburbs page - in fact you may be able to offer us suggestions, or maybe use a shared template. Let me know what you think! We also (just recently) moved all Melbourne suburb names to (suburb), Victoria instead of (suburb) or (suburb), Australia, to make the templates easier to use - just thought you might like to know, since you were editing list of Sydney suburbs! -- Chuq 05:41, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Throwing it out to the floor, what does anyone else reckon to that nearby suburbs table? See Template:MelbSuburbBox1 for the template. And also, I guess, what does anyone else think of having a consistent suburb, New South Wales title for every suburb article? If we were all keen, a template with extra city and state parameters would be usable for both Sydney and Melbourne (and other cities). —Stormie 05:50, Sep 24, 2004 (UTC)

And eventually all the other cities... and then, the World! :) But the city/state parameters wouldn't really be neccessary if you just create a template for each city, just to make it easier. Any stylistic changes would need to be done on each template, but that's a lot easier than entering extra variables a few thousand times. And I think it would be best to have all the suburbs in any place in Australia follow Place, State, especially considering that a lot of them are the same (eg there are no less than four Richmonds) and will need disambigg'n, they may as well all be consistent.

Also, we would love some input on what to do with the templates we have at WPMelbourne, before they get rolled out. See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Melbourne/Suburbs for the different versions.

T.P.K. 06:05, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I think this is a good idea. What sort of template do we all think is a good idea for Template:Sydney (good enough template!)? - Ta bu shi da yu 06:34, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Mind if we steal your classification idea for the suburb article status page for the Melbourne equivalent? I think it's an improvement on what we've got there. But you might want to change "featured", as at first glance, it's easily confused with Wikipedia:Featured articles. Ambi 13:08, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)

No, go ahead! My idea for calling the suburb featured is to actually get them to featured article status :) It's kind of interesting in a way, because the criteria I'm specifying (as I go along so far) is actually even higher than the Featured Articles criteria! - Ta bu shi da yu 15:05, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)

local government areas

Hey peeps, most of the articles on Sydney's LGAs are combined with the suburbs of the same name, e.g. Hornsby. Eventually I think we should split off the council data to Hornsby Shire or Hornsby (LGA), but in an orderly fashion. The reason being that this project aims to expand info on the suburbs, which are different entities to their respective councils. Clearly separating the two in contributors' minds would be beneficial. (Maybe we need a separate Wikiproject Sydney/LGAs?) Randwicked 15:10, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)

This sounds like a good idea. Want to start this and add it to the main page? If you want to start it, we need the same sections we have for here. You may want to modify the template I've got for Sydney suburb areas... I can help with that if you like! - Ta bu shi da yu 15:33, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)

We've chosen the equivalent of Hornsby Shire with Melbourne. I think most of the LGA articles are fairly substubbish, but it allows for an easy suburb template stub in the format of "XXXX is a suburb of Sydney, New South Wales, Australia. It is in the Local Government Area of the City of XXXX."

By the way, with the example articles section, you could always put down a couple of the Melbourne ones. Brunswick and Blackburn South aren't looking too bad at present, and might give some ideas. Ambi 15:41, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Sure, I'll give it a shot. While I'm doing it I should be aiming for standardization across NSW and then the country...got some ideas for that, something along the lines of the nice tables at the UK district articles. --Randwicked 15:45, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Okay, there's a bit of a problem using the Hornsby Shire or City of Dingbats name format, because apparently about half the LGAs in the state don't even have titles. They're just...councils. I think these articles are going to have to go to Dingbats (LGA) or something. Also, please to be looking at and commenting on the infobox I designed: see Ku-ring-gai Shire for the prototype. -Randwicked 12:48, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Review of existing articles on suburbs complete (26/9/2004)

OK, I've just completed a review of the Sydney suburbs we have so far. I can only say that 4 are "complete" - so far none are to the point I could call them featured suburbs. That's precisely 0.007886435% of the total articles that are complete... :P Some of them are pretty close, however. I've marked those as incomplete with a new template I made and placed them into their own category. Hopefully we'll see this category eventually disappear and then I'll be able to use the {{speedy}} tag! - Ta bu shi da yu 15:37, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Hiya! I fixed your percentages on the progress bar: 6 out of 634 is 0.009 (i.e. 0.9%), not 0.009%. :-) Also, I have now removed Newtown from Category:Incomplete Sydney suburbs, it meets the minimum requirements. There's certainly a lot more to be done on it (inspired by Summer Hill), though, it's complete but not finished, if you like! Is there a list somewhere of what the complete and featured suburbs are? —Stormie 01:17, Oct 7, 2004 (UTC)

• Yeah, I think we need a catergory for 'completed' suburbs; Currently it says 7 completed, but I readily see any way to determine what the 7 suburbs are. --Nickj 06:43, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• I just made a list of suburbs that are "complete", "semi-complete" and have "some information". If someone can come up with better names please add them, because I seem devoid of imagination tonight. I only really found 3 suburbs that seemed 'complete' under the standards. There could be more out there - if you can find those missing 4 please add them. Jimm dodd 13:42, Oct 25, 2004 (UTC)

• Good stuff - thank you, Jimm dodd! -- Nickj 00:21, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Cross-Project standards

Do we want to create a standard format to share between all the cities? (Which I would strongly suggest). If so, there really ought to be just one spot for discussion of article format, with this page and the WPM page kept for discussing each city's specifics. Where would this shared page go though? (If we follow history, it'll start out at the WikiProject Melbourne, then the WikiProject Sydney will want it, then the talk page itself will decide to found the WikiProject Canberra to spite both of us!) T.P.K. 06:27, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I think this that the creation of an Australia WikiProject would be perfect for this! - Ta bu shi da yu 06:34, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Continuing discussion at Wikipedia:Australian wikipedians' notice board#WikiProject Australia.

Wanted Photos

I've added a page for listing wanted photos, hope this is OK. There are some wanted photos that I've had on my to-do list for ages for both myself and Ta bu shi da yu, and I still haven't gotten around to them — so I'm going to try an experiment and make a public "Wanted Photos" list, and see if that leads to better results. All the best, -- Nickj 01:45, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

suggest rename of category:Incomplete Sydney suburbs

...to category:incomplete Sydney localities which can be more general, as some of the areas already listed are not strictly suburbs (such as Ku-ring-gai Council and others). clarkk 12:02, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Update (after 2 years!) - This category was deleted --Steve _(Slf67) ^talk 02:16, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Copyright

I put a potential copyright violation tag into the Concord discussion page. The material that has been put up looks suspect to me. --Alexxx1 23:15, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Suburb Skeleton

I've taken the Summer Hill article and extracted most of suburb-specific information, leaving a fairly generic skeleton at User:PeterJeremy/Suburb Skeleton. My original intention was to take existing suburb stubs (eg Forestville), put the existing information in the skeleton and leave the rest blank - look at User:PeterJeremy/Forestville for the result. Having actually looked through the skeleton, even after filling in the easy bits (like the surrounding suburbs, land values, electoral results etc), there's still a lot left (and I've spend about 6 hours on it so far). Is it better to have all the headings in place, some with nothing, or dummy entries, in them, or slowly pad out the article, not having any empty headings? The former is much easier to work on, because the skeleton is in place, but it doesn't look especially wonderful until it's complete.

--PeterJeremy 00:42, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Incomplete list??

Hello, I'm from Adelaide, and so am not at all an expert, but I think that the List of Sydney suburbs is not complete as it claims to be. I looked at City of Fairfield and have found redlink suburbs, which are not listed on the "complete" list. I am adding suburb/councile boxes where they do not exist, but I would like a Sydney expert to check up on this please.Blnguyen 04:33, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

I think you'll find it's the other way around. The list of Sydney Suburbs is mostly complete (I say "mostly" not because I know of problems, but rather because there are bound to be at least some omissions or mistakes because nobody is perfect). So, honest mistakes aside, it is a (hopefully) complete list of suburbs. However, it is not a complete list of neighbourhoods, historical locations, etc - things that are not suburbs - and it could be quite hard to make a complete list of such things because there are quite a few of them. So for example, there are 5 redlinks on the City of Fairfield page:

1. Cabramatta Heights is a discontinued neighbourhood name.
2. Cabravale seems to just be related to parks when searching for that name.
3. Fairvale seems to just be related to schools.
4. No entry for Lansvale East or East Lansvale.
5. No entry for Smithfield West or West Smithfield.

Therefore I have removed the above 5 entries now. The background to the municipalities being over-generous in what they consider to be a suburb, and the corresponding cleanup required is covered in this message. -- All the best, Nickj (t) 05:57, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

ABS Data

"Population statistics (can be found from the Bureau of Statistics Office). Tip: The ABS website is a very hard to navigate - so to find the right document, search google for POA2234 (replace "2234" with the right postcode for your suburb)" - unfortunately some suburbs share the same postcode eg. 2147 ie Seven Hills, Lalor Park, and Kings Langley. These are quite major population areas. How can one get the break up of each area? Anyway what is it with the ABS making life so difficult with such a horrible site? Makes me quite glad that I haven't filled out a census form for my household since 1981. Albatross2147 06:42, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Suburb-specific stats can be found here. we should use these rather than the postcode stats. - Randwicked Alex B 15:09, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

These files include a lot of statistics and are quite hard to select from. If I were to create a script that summarised them, what should it include? jnothman ^talk 09:38, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Mapping Template

I have deleted the whereis link as the interface has changed and it no longer works. If anyone knows the new interface to whereis via lat and long, please fix this. I couldn't find any ref on their web site (short of buying their API toolkit). Also, if someone does fix this, please use whereis.com rather than whereis.com.au as that avoids a redirect. Stephen.frede 07:39, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for doing that, and I couldn't find a way to get the new whereis site to work using long + lat either, short of handing them over wads of cash. I've added multimap instead, which now does Australia, so we should be back to 3 street directories now. -- All the best, Nickj (t) 01:26, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

When I tried it, it gave an error message, requiring a client parameter, so I added "client=public" to the URL, which is what the main web interface to the site uses, and now it works a treat. Thanks for finding that. BTW, I've started using this template on some railway stations - it didn't seem worthwhile creating a new template for what would only be a minor difference in scale parameter. Stephen.frede 11:32, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Suburb Mapping Template/Topographic mapping

Just a suggestion, but topographic mapping for Australia is now available through a digital atlas - see this example. If you know the decimal lat and long for the location then you can bring up a map centered on that point using the formulation http://maps.bonzle.com/c/a?a=p&x={{long}}&y={{lat}}. Gonebush 10:01, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Suburb, southern hemisphere

Sorry for the satirical heading.

I've corrected the headings on the subpage to accord to WP's style guide, and avoid encouraging editors unconsciously to cap section headings in articles.

Thanks to editors who have worked on Sydney suburb articles (presumably mostly quite a while ago). I'm moving [Suburb], [NSW] gradually to [Suburb], [Sydney], which is just a little more helpful to readers who are unfamiliar with Sydney (Birchgrove is not just north Armidale). WP is not a postal envelope, let's remember: NSW is a very big place—the size of western and central Europe—and article titles should be as helpful as possible, and as succinct as possible, according to the policy.

I'm correcting overlinking of common terms (see MOSLINK) like "suburb" and quite a few others, and removing "located" in opening sentences where I find it. It's a pity this segment of WP was written in these ways, but understandable if it was a long time ago. My best. Tony (talk) 02:22, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

Still waiting for the diff to the consensus you're claiming to support your iron-grip naming decision on these articles. Could you give me a timefame for when it will be placed here, please? Tony (talk) 07:40, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

Added 2004. Never challenged in 12 years. Consensus by acquiescence. 202.159.191.52 (talk) 12:10, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

That is not the way consensus works. If you can't point to where and when it was agreed to, it's not covered by consensus. I can find no good reason that Sydney suburbs should not be named as part of the city they're in. Suburbs in states? That is not intuitive, and unhelpful for readers. ... and Wikiprojects do not have automatic stylistic authority over any article they choose to "own". Tony (talk) 12:58, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

Not every edit requires consensus, only contentious ones. Like yours. Look up the Wikipedia entry for ANY suburb in ANY Australian capital city. See the consistency? Thousands of suburbs, all with a title written in the same format (Suburb, State). See also WP:NCAUST for national convention. You make a few changes to suburbs along Victoria Road and Anzac Parade and think it is helpful to the program? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.159.191.52 (talk) 13:10, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

So who are you? If you want to weigh in pontificating on what is contentious and what is not, you need to go beyond being an anonymous entity. Tony (talk) 15:26, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

whoa Tony! This doesn't need to be contentious. I'd just make your case, which you've done and I think it's a fair one. But let's talk about this civilly :-)- Letsbefiends (talk) 08:41, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

It sounds pretty reasonable to me, actually. I think it is better to use Sydney - my only question is what are the boundaries? Should it only be in the metropolitan area? But I agree, a decision made 14 years ago on naming conventions isn't necessarily the best way of naming things, though it may have seemed that way at the time :-) - Letsbefiends (talk) 08:36, 12 May 2016 (UTC)