Talk:Garda Síochána

Should this be included in the article?

How about including this:

• The "Garda Síochána na hÉireann" (in English - "Guardians of the Peace of Ireland")

"Garda Síochána" is not the Irish for "Guardians of the Peace", and "Guardians of the Peace" is not the English for "Garda Síochána" - the Irish language has singular and plural definite articles, and the singular definite article is the only article ever used with the name of the organization - "AN Garda Síochána" - just like "the Coast Guard", the "Garda" is a singular noun, not a collection of individual "guardians". (There are further, more detailed grammatical reasons why this folk etymology is nonsense, but the difference between singular *an* and plural *na* is one of the first things that an English speaker will be taught when learning Irish).

The correct legal name of the force in English is "the Garda Síochána". (See earlier references to the original Acts of legislation from 1923, 1924 and 1925 in the "Name of the force" section). While the "na hÉireann" is present on the badge, it is not part of the legal or common name of the force. You can translate "Garda Síochána" as "Peace Guard" if you think that it's necessary to provide a translation, but the name of it's immediate historical predecessor "the Civic Guard" might be more appropriate. It is extremely misleading to suggest that "Guardians of the Peace of Ireland" is ever used as the English language name of the force (by anyone who hasn't looked it up on Wikipedia, at least). Part of the job of members of "An Garda Síochána" is indeed to act as "guardians of the peace", but there is simply no linguistic or historical justification for the statement "(in English - "Guardians of the Peace of Ireland")" - it is simply not true. - 108.52.189.30 (talk) 20:46, 29 April 2021 (UTC)Elstar108.52.189.30 (talk) 20:46, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

The phrase used in the article is "the Guardian of the Peace". Which is a singular, is it not?Boardwalk.Koi (talk) 13:44, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

The introduction uses "the Guardian of the Peace", but the body of the article changes this to "the Guardian(s) of the Peace" while citing a source that said "the Guardians of the Peace" - I can't find any justification for the modification of the cited source in this way. The cited source is factually incorrect, (it's a "folk etymology" of some sort), but if linguistic accuracy is the motivation for modifying the cited source, even allowing for the (very) dubious translation of "Garda" as "Guardian" rather than "Guard", "the Guardian of the Peace" is a genitive phrase, and the linguistically accurate translation of the genitive phrase is *Garda na Síochána* (using *na* as a singular genitive article, because "Síochán" is a feminine noun). Instead, in "An Garda Síochána", "Síochána" is being used as an noun attribute of "Garda", as though it was an adjective (adjectives come after their nouns in Irish), i.e. "the Peace Guard". Either use the cited source, pointing out the linguistic issues or provide a linguistically correct translation. Instead, we have a worst-of-both-worlds outcome, that is both linguistically inaccurate AND is not reflected in the cited source.

The key question really is: what is the purpose of the the "meaning" qualification? The public do not refer to the force itself, or to the members of the force as a "Guarduan" or as "Guardians". The members of the force are routinely referred to as "Guards", as the the article body acknowledges, because the English for "Garda" is "Guard", not "Guardian". The Irish for "guardian angel" is "aingeal coimhdeachta", the Irish for "legal guardian" is "caomhnóir dlíthiúil", whereas "security guard" is "garda slándála". Tearma.ie does suggest that Plato's "Guardians" can be translated as "Garda", but their role in Plato's society was not the role of policeman. If the purpose of providing a "meaning" for the Irish phrase is to provide a translation for people who don't speak Irish, there doesn't seem to be much point in giving an inaccurate translation that doesn't even reflect the actual usage in Ireland, all for the sake of a half-nod in the general direction of a citation that isn't quite good enough to be left unmangled. 108.52.189.30 (talk) 16:44, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

• Irish is the first official language of the Republic of Ireland and English is the second official language. Every member of our police force must be suitably qualified in both languages.

http://www.policehistory.com/garda.html Peter K Burian (talk) 13:33, 11 July 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for the edits of content I added today, @User:Guliolopez. I agree with the revisions. What are your thoughts about the two points above? Should I add them to the article? Peter K Burian (talk) 15:31, 11 July 2019 (UTC)

Hi @Peter K Burian:. No problem. In terms of the above, I wouldn't recommend including it. Not in that format at any rate. As, technically, I don't think it's accurate. Per the Gardaí's own recruitment/educational requirements FAQ, recruits must have "proven proficiency in two languages; one of which must be Irish or English". Note that this states "Irish or English". Not "Irish and English".

As far as I am concerned the requirement to prove proficiency in Irish was removed nearly 15 years ago. While, under the Garda Act 2005, the organisation actively recruits and trains members for proficiency in Irish, it isn't a requirement. Not any longer. (See "Irish Times - "Irish no longer a requirement to join An Garda" - Sep 2005). Guliolopez (talk) 16:51, 11 July 2019 (UTC)

OK, thanks. Peter K Burian (talk) 23:41, 11 July 2019 (UTC)

Errors in the shield graphic

At the time of this writing, the shield graphic being used is this one: [1]

This graphic is riddled with errors, not of least of which is that it says "Sarda Síochána" instead of "Garda". There are other major issues as well, including lettering that is differing sizes and not aligned, triquetras that are lopsided, and the GS letter mark in the centre looking like it was hand-drawn. In all, it just looks bad and amateurish.

For comparison, this is a proper shield from the Gardai's Facebook page: [2]

I'm going to remove the shield for now because its poor quality (and massive misspelling in the name) really detracts from the article. 73.254.89.77 (talk) 04:01, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Update: I let the original uploader (and artist?) know over on Commons. Once it gets repaired, I hope we can bring the graphic back 73.254.89.77 (talk) 05:02, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Update 2: The author simply deleted my message, taking no further action on this. Therefore, I'm going to assume that this person is uninterested in fixing it. I'm going to open a request at Commons' Graphics Lab and see if we can get a fix. 73.254.89.77 (talk) 06:08, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Garda Special Branch Bodyguard.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 06:51, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

References

Some of the references needs to be either updated (if can be) or removed entirely as the source no longer exists for some of them. IrishDeafBoy (talk) 11:01, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. Could you give examples, to speed this up? Offline sources are fine, so for lost-link online sources, they may, hopefully, have been captured by the Internet Archive, or the retention project of a national or research library (the National Library of Ireland, British Library, Library of Congress, several US bodies and universities, etc.), either by recording the source, or by printing and filing a copy. At any rate, we can look into it. SeoR (talk) 16:10, 21 November 2023 (UTC)