Talk:Assassination of John F. Kennedy

JFK autopsy missing photos and x-rays

In the article, there is this line: "Some autopsy X-rays and photographs have also been lost."

I am trying to unravel this one, as there are a lot of claims in regards to those photos. First off, I can't find any reference to any X-rays having gone missing, so does anyone have any info on this? As for the photos, the best I can determine is though the 3 pathologists and photographer signed off on saying "all" images were there when transferred to the Archives in 1966, they separately claimed that photos showing the bevelling of the skull wound from the inside, and of the inside of the chest showing the lungs, adrenals etc, weren't part of that inventory. Bugliosi points out that the "bevel" photos in fact DO seem to be part of the inventory, though the chest shots are not there, though there is some uncertainty that they were in fact taken.

So, from what they say, it seems that one (or two) of the chest photos may be missing.

But then we get other claims, like from Saundra Spencer at the White House photo lab who seems to be talking about a second set of photos, either of the autopsy, or of the corpse "cleaned up" after preparation for embalming. These may have been taken by White House photographer Robert Knudsen. But this is very speculative, as are claims of photos depicting a metal probe. But John Stringer, the autopsy photographer, and others there, while recalling a metal probe, don't recall photographing this. On Knudsen - he claims to have been the autopsy photographer though Stringer indisputably was and no one recalls his presence at the autopsy. He claimed photos he took were confiscated and that when he saw the official photos, they weren't what he remembered.

Further, Joe O'Donnell, a photographer, claimed to have been shown autopsy photos taken by his friend Knudsen which showed different head wounds - like an entrance wound at the hairline in the front - but his claims don't match anything we see in the authenticated photos. Further, he made many strange claims - such as having taken the famous JFK jr "salute" photo which he didn't; demanding to talk to Jackie upon her return with the casket at Andrew's Air Force base, which was granted, and sitting in the ambulance with the coffin with her to tell her of JFK's desire to be buried at Arlington; claiming to have had a private viewing, just she and Jackie, to watch the Zapruder film together.

The Knudsen/O'Donnell claims seem too far out - and are wildly inconsistent - the wounds change in their recollections - but it was what a lot of conspiracy theorists seize on. Other claims, by Dennis David and Floyd Riebe don't hold water as David claims to be shown photos taken by someone who wasn't there, a memory recovered by hypnosis, and Riebe, while there, was remembered for taking photos of those present, only to pull the film out to destroy the exposures.

I propose we either omit the line, or mention that several of the chest photos may have gone missing. And remove the "x-rays" claim unless someone can confirm that there is a claim some of those have gone missing.

Canada Jack (talk) 00:49, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

Canada Jack, which page in Bugliosi supports the brain being found missing, and which page supports the "either destroyed these materials..." bit? Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 02:17, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

The page in Bug where the brain is missing is 431; "either destroyed..." page 432. It cites 7 HSCA 32-33.

For a page with a "good" status I am surprised at how many glaring errors have crept into the page lately. "Two" surgeons performing the autopsy? And the claim that the brain was at the National Archives? That is not true - or at best highly misleading. The brain was kept in a facility at the Archives - but was under custody of the Kennedys. It was when they transferred the items to the Archives that Item - which included the brain - was not among the items the Kennedys previously had in their custody. But it was clearly the Kennedys who had these items removed. Canada Jack (talk) 02:59, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

Should have said "...that Item 9 - which included..." Canada Jack (talk) 03:01, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 03:04, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 December 2023

Why not add the Zapruder film video file form commons? (Zapruder-Film- Original) 174.3.207.112 (talk) 03:16, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. Given there are already still images from the Zapruder film in the article, this should at least be discussed before being implemented. HouseBlaster^talk 05:09, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

The file in question has now been deleted from Commons as a copyright violation. [1] AndyTheGrump (talk) 00:01, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

Information to real shooter of Kennedy Semi-protected edit request on 4 March 2024

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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2 different zapruder tapes are known to exist. The one you see used is highly edited as there is half a tree displayed and people missing from the shot. The second tape that wasn't edited, was able to be slowed enough that you see Bill Greer (JFKs driver) pull an electric gun and shoot Kennedy from the front. This correlates with why the back of Kennedys skull was the majorilty reflected damage. Had L.H.O been the killer, the bullet wound would have been in the larger in appearance at the front of his skull, not the back. The assassination was a coup designed for Lyndon Johnson to give control back to the elites since Kennedy had issued executive orders to get rid of the federal reserve.

YouTube video interview: https://www.facebook.com/share/r/BcLatuUGg5QoBgCM/?mibextid=oFDknk 24.235.148.150 (talk) 15:39, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: You have not indicated what exact changes you would like to be made (e.g. "change X to Y"), nor have you provided a reliable source for your claims (a Facebook post of a TikTok clip of a YouTube video of a someone filming their TV is not a reliable source, see the Sagan standard). You also leave out the part where Seymour, the only person to have seen the supposed "real" tape, also says that both it and the version with the floating tree were fabrications created to discredit her. --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 15:54, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

An electric gun seems so very James Bond. Wouldn't it have been easier just to poison JFK's coffee? EEng 02:41, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Kennedy and Connally name mixup

In the caption under the images of the bird’s eye view of the bullet trajectory (black ink drawings with red markings) it reads “Kennedy’s non fatal wound and Connally’s wounds” when I believe it should instead read “Connally’s non fatal wound and Kennedy’s wounds”. Fixing this would improve readability of this very important article. I have never edited Wikipedia (or written on the talk page) before but I noticed this error and I thought it would be good to point out. Lightningbolt007 (talk) 23:10, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

Kennedy was shot more than once, with fatal and non-fatal shots. Acroterion (talk) 23:16, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for clarifying. Lightningbolt007 (talk) 02:16, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Very slight correction on Kennedy's Arrival in Dallas.

Hi I'm Sleep, I'm a Belgian final year student that has chosen the assassination of John Fitzgerald Kennedy as my final year essay. I wanted to be as diligent as possible in the flight arrival hours so I searched for official documentation on such a precise thing as Kennedy's arrival in Dallas. I noticed that it shows as 11:40 on this page although official flight logs from the National Museum of the United States Air Force shows the arrival to be at 11:38. Here is the document. https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit/Museum-Exhibits/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/579674/sam-26000-logbook/

I hope my correction doesn't come across as petty or irrelevant, I just want to contribute to improving what will be for most the go-to source of information on this subject. I lack sleep (talk) 11:22, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

It's not petty or irrelevant at all, but it does highlight yet another reason we prefer secondary to primary sources. No doubt there are many logs and records reflecting "arrival" -- pilots, Secret Service, airport tower, etc. Each may have its own definition -- wheels touched down, aircraft stopped at a designated disembarkation point, door opened, Kennedy appears at door, who knows? All these might be valid "arrival times". Plus in those days, everyone was just looking at his watch and writing down what it said. That's not the sort of thing we as editors can sort out, nor should be try.

Presumably the "11:40" figure you mention as currently being in the article comes from some reliable source which made a reasoned choice among the above. Perhaps that source took the figure from e.g. the Warren Commission, which itself found a center point among several records at slight variance. But in any event, we rely on secondary sources to do that for us.

Now, if there's conflict or controversy among secondary sources on this point, that might be worth bringing out in the article. But on this particular point I doubt there will be.

So while your attention to detail is laudable, it turns out that this is one of those places that we as editors make our lives easier by letting others do the work. EEng 02:35, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your answer, I understand. I lack sleep (talk) 10:29, 1 April 2024 (UTC)