Talk:Data haven

This article was nominated for deletion on 25 April 2010 (UTC). The result of the discussion was speedy keep.

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Origin of the Term[edit]

I'm not so sure about the origin of the term that is listed here.. I recall the term being used in the first few chapters of Count Zero by William Gibson (when Turner is taken to an oil rig in international waters, it is said that it was once used as a data haven), and that book was released in 1986, three years before Bruce Sterling's book. Can anyone confirm if I am wrong? --Anticrash 14:36, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Is there such a thing as a Data Hell?

Germany? What does Germany censor? --Mrowlinson 05:37, 23 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Like many other European countries, Germany censors "hate speech", especially, like France, most anything pertaining to Nazism. While this is understandable given the history of these countries, it still constitutes censorship. - Tzaquiel 21:10, 18 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Germany bans many things, William Gibson's books are being demonized currently, Final Fantasy 7 has been banned after two teenagers claimed to have been influenced by it after a spreekilling, etc75.173.83.232 (talk) 22:22, 14 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"There is an understood rule amongst most of those who establish or favour data havens that they should not be used to facilitate spam, terrorism, or child pornography."

Isn't this somewhat non-NPOV? If there are only two actual examples of data havens, it seems questionable to talk about "most of those .."?

It also seems reasonable to distinguish between moral choices made by the operators of data havens and practical choices - e.g., maybe data haven operators don't care about spam one way or the other, but would quickly see their connections to the net cut off if they were to allow it.

Also, Freenet seems like a bad example, since it doesn't protect content by legal means, only technical means.

Freenet was explicitly designed to have helpful legal properties. Chandon 16:51, 29 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Why has the United States been made an example here? I know of no ISP's that filter other than school or work accounts. And also, the government is FAILING to "censor" stuff. Better examples are Saudi Arabia and Singapore, which still do it. WhisperToMe 01:50, 21 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. Even with the cite stating "the US isn't the best," the way the article is set up now seems to imply that China and America are on equal footing in terms of internet censorship. And if DMCA style laws are enough to get one on the list, many other countries should be their too.

Rough Towers: why is this even in an entry on data havens? The article should explain what a data haven is, not talk about some aspect of Havenco's history. Perhaps the section should be moved to Havenco's entry. I'm removing it. Jebba 03:48, 24 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

HavenCo[edit]

The article claims that HavenCo is not hosted on Sealand anymore. Can anyone provide a reference? Wmahan . 00:21, 30 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the claim. Wmahan . 15:55, 1 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Existing data havens?[edit]

Does there exist any data havens today? which are them?

The article mentioned Havenco. Then there are various companies providing "offshore" hosting like [1][2][3]. I think these are mostly used to get around US laws on things like gambling or as tax havens or corporate havens. Anonymous networks like Tor and I2P aim to provide havens in a more P2P-like manner. Wmahan . 15:55, 1 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Good data haven[edit]

Data stored in strong cascade encrypted files cleverly stored steganographically on a encrypted partition. In a bullet-proof, burglar-resistant, fire-resistant, air-tight, water-proof, radiation-shielded multi-factor authentication safe - made of space-grade metal alloys. Concealed under the floor or in the wall of a secret vault/strong-room filled with VX gas, located in the center of a secret floor located at the bottom of steel-reinforced secret underground bomb-proof facility located in the desert, under a lake or under a mountain of an obscure isolated private island heavily guarded 24/7 by redundant security systems incorporating CCTV, radar, sonar, satellite, tripwires, lasers, motion-detectors, vibration-detectors, sound-detectors, smoke-detectors, heat-detectors, nightvision, infra-red sensors and heavily armed security guards. Add some turrets and SAM-sites too... and sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their heads.

Though if an underground facility on a private island isn't exactly what you're looking for, then perhaps an underwater base on the bottom of the Mariana Trench at 10911 meters depth would be something? Or perhaps something similar but on a black-coated stealth space station equipped with thermonuclear warheads, hidden far away in deep space?

My tinfoil hat has triple-layered tinfoil coating with rubber on the inside.

Space[edit]

Imagine putting a data haven on a satellite or space station up in the space with satellite link.

OK. It'd be low-bandwidth, hard to access, expensive, fragile, and probably could be DOSed easily. --Gwern (contribs) 22:51 10 March 2007 (GMT)

Maybe not low-bandwidth. But yeah, it could be easily destroyed by any modern country and thus not worth the trouble of putting it into space in the first place... and maintenance/upgrades would be a bitch. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.71.40.121 (talk) 07:18, 11 April 2007 (UTC).[reply]

But you could put anything on there, as there's be no rules, as space has no website laws1 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fivexthethird (talk • contribs) 03:10, 4 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I know it already exists but it doesn't legally help since the law is the one of the launching country. You can also not put anything into orbit without prior validation by governments so... it sounds pretty much impossible to use this solution. Utopiah (talk) 01:54, 10 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Nonprofit[edit]

re: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Data_haven&curid=168753&diff=375857233&oldid=366528441

Worth keeping? The nonprofit has barely any Google visibility whatsoever, which is hardly 'well-known': http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q="DataHaven"+-"data+haven" --Gwern (contribs) 04:12 4 August 2010 (GMT)

An anon has taken it upon itself to remove the whole bit. I guess that takes care of that. --Gwern (contribs) 07:38 11 August 2010 (GMT)