Talk:Death Valley National Park

Redirects

• Death Valley National Monument
• Death Valley, California

Recent Lake?

there is also danger in these parks. Danger that people can control. Was there really a past lake at Badwater called "Recent Lake"? I've searched for a reference, but all I've found are mirrors back to this wikipedia article -- or phrases along the lines of "the most recent lake in Death Valley...". USGS's GNIS has no entry for a "Recent Lake". Also casting doubt: isn't the convention for naming no-longer-extant lakes to begin them with the word Lake (as in Lake Manly)? -- ScottMainwaring, 20:06, 1 December 2005

In the absence of any verifiable source for this, I removed the reference to "Recent Lake". --ScottMainwaring 17:41, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Designation?

Didn't Death Valley use to be a national monument? - Montréalais

isn't it still...hold on I'll ck, nope, not as far I can tell--dgd

Yes it was at one time a national monument but was promoted to nationalparkhood 1994. --mav

The various topics in the descriptions of resources (history, geology, mining, ranching, rock art, botany, wildlife, as well as horses and burros,) are virtually ignored for 40 % of the park -- those areas added to the Park in 1994. Only the northern 1/3 of Panamint Valley is within the Park, but All of Saline Valley, and nearly all of Eureka Valley are also in the Park. There are four distinct dune systems inside the new boundaries: Eureka Dunes, Saline Valley Dunes, Panamint Dunes, and Ibex dunes. The Saline Valley has a large thermal springs area. The geology and mining history needs updating with information on Crater. The botanic province, and the importance of expansive wildflower blooms that bring traffic jamming numbers of visitors in the spring were ignored.

The Racetrack is named for the natural movement of ROCKS across the dry lake bed (one of which can be seen in a photo) Recent research has revealed that specific weather combinations of temperature, water or precipitation on the lake bed, and wind can cause unexpectedly rapid movements of the rocks. Cdpl94 (talk) 00:27, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

Death Valley '49ers left via Wingate Pass?

According to [1], they used Immmigrant Canyon (which would explain the name), and [2] says that some of them used Towne Pass (named after the Towne party?). Is there a source for Wingate Pass? --NE2 02:02, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Wingate Pass part deleted. --mav (talk) 00:04, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Telephone history

The below text needs to be cleaned-up and cited before it is put back into the article. --mav (talk) 00:02, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

A desert telephone box between Junction and Furnace Creek near the crossroad for Dante's View

While the area has modern telephone service today, the park is a rural area.

Before the 1980s, a variety of telephone technologies of different eras connected communities within the park. The area was within the Pacific Telephone area of the former Bell System. An electromechanical step-by-step central office at Furnace Creek switched calls for dial telephones in the resort and Visitor Center area. At the time, service was constrained to rotary dial only. Coin service was provided and included dialtone-first 9-1-1 service when that rolled out.

A 454 MHz (Furnace Creek to Stovepipe Wells) / 459 MHz (reverse direction) full-duplex Rural Radio Telephone Service link went from Furnace Creek Central Office to Stovepipe Wells. The channel pairs were shared with Improved Mobile Telephone Service, which was not offered on UHF in Death Valley. The link used single-frequency (SF) signaling. Subscribers at Stovepipe Wells used non-dial phones, (manual service). To place a call, they would just go off-hook and wait for the operator. To reach Stovepipe Wells from anyplace in North America, callers would dial "0" for the operator and ask for Stovepipe Wells California Toll Station Number ... (and the single-digit number). Although Death Valley was in 619 area code at the time, the operator routing for Stovepipe Wells was through Los Angeles: KP 213+181 ST. The caller's local toll operator would have to call an operator in Los Angeles, who would manually set up the call.

Death Valley Junction was also on manual service. A multi-circuit open wire ran from Furnace Creek Central Office to Death Valley Junction. An unusual, non-dial 1A1 Coin Collector was installed at the Amargosa Hotel. Its bright red instruction card said, "Do Not Deposit Coins," as there was no way to send coin relay commands (e.g. coin return/coin collect) over the manual circuit.

Timbisha place names within the Park

This para needs inline citations added before it is put back into the article. --mav (talk) 00:30, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Timbisha, from tümpisa, "rock paint", refers to both the valley and the village located at the mouth of Furnace Creek. It refers to rich sources of red ochre paint in the valley. Ubehebe Crater, possibly from hüüppi pitsi, "old woman's breast". The Timbisha call it tümpingwosa, "rock basket". Wahguyhe Peak, from the Timbisha name waakko'i, "pinyon pine summit". The Timbisha term refers to the entire Grapevine Range. Hanaupah Canyon, from the Timbisha name Hunuppaa, "Canyon Springs" (see Timbisha language).

it is located in the mojave desert —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.222.8.231 (talk) 22:30, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

"Death Valley National Monument was proclaimed..."

What does this mean? Is it an Americanism? Shouldn't the sentence read "Death Valley National Park was proclaimed (as) a monument..."? This blurb currently appears as is for tomorrow's TFA. Can someone in the know please reword that sentence? Regards. ZUNAID●FOREVER 16:42, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

No, the sentence is correct as it is. A national monument is not a national park. 75.41.110.200 (talk) 15:08, 19 November 2009

(UTC)

75.41.110.200 is correct. National Park vs. National Monument (United States) At the time, I and many others were unhappy about some of the changes that National Park status would bring to the area. JPAnalog (talk) 06:14, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Intro

The intro is ambiguous and somewhat misleading. "Death Valley National Park is the most arid United States National Park located east of the Sierra Nevada..."

Should be changed to "Death Valley National Park is a mostly arid United States National Park. Located east of the Sierra Nevada..." the sentence is disjointed and may imply that it is only arid compared to other regions east of the sierra nevada.

Intro sentence broken up now. --mav (talk) 03:27, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Geographic Setting

Changed "Teapot Junction" to "Teakettle Junction," this is a well-known spot.JPAnalog (talk) 06:01, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Regarding the gravel road from Ubehebe Crater to Teakettle Junction and down into the Racetrack Playa, much of it is passable by even two-wheel drive passenger cars under good conditions, but even under the best conditions the dirt portions are severely washboard rutted and I once aged a brand-new car very quickly on them, introducing a host of squeaks and rattles, much to my spouse's chagrin. Not sure if this is worth noting here, but someone in a nice, brand-new crossover vehicle might want to think twice before venturing off the paved roads.JPAnalog (talk) 06:30, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

It depends on the condition of the road, which is dependent on the time since the last grading, recent weather and the number of vehicles using the road. Given all that, sometimes a particular dirt road is passable by a regular car but other times even 4x4s have a hard time. What a visitor needs to do is ask a ranger before going on any dirt road to find out about current conditions. I too have made the bumpy trip to the Racetrack in a regular car just fine and another time I got a flat in a SUV on the same road after a very, very rough trip. --mav (reviews needed) 00:51, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Night Sky

is the panorama of the night sky in Death Valley a true representation of what can be seen by eye there? Or is it enhanced in some way? 74.128.56.194 (talk) 05:59, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

See the description on the NASA page for more info. Vsmith (talk) 13:05, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Don't overlook the fact that a 360, panoramic view, distorts perspective. The human eye would see the Milky Way differently. But maybe that's already understood.  –droll [chat] 00:08, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Re: Pyrex glassware

The article claimed that Pyrex bakeware is make borosilicate glass. This is only partially true. Today, household Pyrex products sold in the United States, including bakeware and measuring cups, are made of tempered soda-lime glass. See the Pyrex article. It says that European Pyrex branded household products are still made of borosilicate glass. Evidently, Pyrex branded laboratory glassware is also borosilicate glass. –droll [chat] 05:48, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Section for travelers who travel in the Summer months

This 4th of July weekend, I traveled with my family to Las Vegas and made a stop in Death Valley. Temperature was hovering around 117 degrees in the Valley. It would be good to see a section in this article that talks about travel in the extreme temperature. My RV broke down in the extreme heat and it was our good luck that we were near the Furnace Creek. TomPaul67 (talk) 06:35, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

More of a job for Wikitravel.org with the provided External link even though there is a passing allusion: "The normal season for visiting the park is from October 15 to May 15, because of summer extremes in temperature." The climate section also noted that it is the hottest and driest place on the continent, setting record high temperatures on a regular basis. However, there might be nothing wrong with expanding slightly in the Activities section that the Valley is isolated, has just a few tourist facilities separated often separated by 50 miles of open desert and rugged mountains, and desert extremes of heat and cold can wreck havoc on vehicles and people. Bring food and water and do not expect a cell phone signal (I can say all that from experience). --Marcinjeske (talk) 00:59, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Yep - Last time I was there was in July and I got a flat tire on a dirt road 15 miles from pavement and no cell signal. At least it was *only* just above 100 and it was just a single flat. Also good to note (if a RL can be found for it) would be that some tourists go there in July/August in large part to experience the extreme heat. --mav (reviews needed) 00:40, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

If you are visiting Death Valley NP in the summer, expect to rub shoulders at featured sites with foreign, especially European, visitors. Prior to 1980 the National Park Service cut back to a "skeleton" crew during the summer, and some concessions closed. There were few visitors, and temperatures were too high to schedule maintenance or construction jobs. The mid 1980's saw an increase of summer visitors, nearly all European. By 1994 the National Park Service and concessionaires were hiring staff that spoke German, French, Italian for the summer months. California visitors flock to the Park in the spring -- if there have been winter rains, so that there are wildflower displays. The displays continue for weeks along the routes into Death Valley, moving up to higher and higher elevation as the temperature rises. Fall visitation is high around an annual gathering of "The Death Valley '49ers." Cdpl94 (talk) 00:56, 4 March 2018 (UTC),<pers.communications DV Superintendents 1982-2000)

Death Valley is now officially the hottest place on Earth

The WMO (World Meteorological Organization) this morning de-certified the record for the world's highest surface temperature, held for 90 years by El Azizia, Libya. The now official hottest temperature ever recorded on Earth was the 56.7°C (134°F) reading taken at Furnace Creek (née Greenland Ranch) in Death Valley on July 10, 1913, should someone wish to adjust this page. http://wmo.asu.edu/, and http://www.wunderground.com/blog/weatherhistorian/comment.html?entrynum=89 75.147.156.165 (talk) 13:13, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

October 2015 flood event

I added a sentence about the October 2015 flood event, which is apparently the biggest in recorded history in Death Valley and caused major damage. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Leavit2stever (talk • contribs) 23:59, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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Death Valley's Pupfish and Devil's Hole

Salt Creek Interpretive Area features one of several populations of desert pupfish in the Park. A raised boardwalk parallels the creek; restrooms in the parking area only. Display boards describe the species and its unique history. In addition to these pupfish in the bottom of Death Valley, there are nearby populations of pupfish along the Amargosa River in Shoshone, at Saratoga Springs near the southern boundary, in Ash Meadows National Wildife Refuge, and famously at Devil's Hole, in Nevada, a part of the original National Monument. The endangered Devil's Hole pupfish population, is sensitive to ground water level changes and regularly monitored by a "Death Valley Scuba Dive Team". Devil's Hole is completely surrounded by the expanded Ash Meadows National Wildlife Refuge; however, pupfish management is still overseen by Death Valley National Park.Cdpl94 (talk) 02:11, 4 March 2018 (UTC)<AMNWF staff, and DVNP dive team, Mar. 2016>

Furnace Creek in Death Valley, CA hit 124.3 deg F on Jul 26

on Jul 26, Furnace Creek hit 124.3 deg F at 4pm local time. The record for hottest temperature in the world is here. Death Valley National Park is still open with extreme heat warning alert. see link Meso West For extreme heat warning alert, forecast 110 deg F see NPS Death Valley

Stay cool! SWP13 (talk) 01:53, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

Two articles?

I am somewhat surprised we have two articles on Death Valley--this one on the park and the other of just Death Valley. I have always thought of them as the same thing, more or less. I am resistant to making any significant changes to this featured article that are not unquestionably an improvement.

I think it would be helpful if the two articles referred to each other in the first or second sentence so readers know to visit both articles to learn the most they can. This article does not even mention the existence of the other--or if it does, it is well buried.

I am not going to propose a merge at this time, because I do not want to damage a featured article with a big ugly merge template, but to be honest, despite how voluminous both articles are, that seems to me the way to go. --David Tornheim (talk) 03:34, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

Death Valley, the valley, is only about half of Death Valley, the national park. Death Valley has a disambig link to Death Valley National Park right at the top of the page. -- Scott (talk) 02:35, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

@Scott Burley: Death Valley, the valley, is only about half of Death Valley, the national park.

Then I think the article should say so to make that clear and right near the beginning of the article. As I said above, it is not clear that *all* of the Death Valley is in the park. It just says "Death Valley constitutes much of Death Valley National Park".

Death Valley has a disambig link to Death Valley National Park right at the top of the page.

Death Valley National Park does not. I think it would be better to mention the valley in the first sentence or two (rather than a disamb link) to indicate to readers that there is a second article that is only about the Valley--an article that has additional information that they might miss.

@Acroterion: and Scott Burley: Do you agree or disagree on these various points?

I decided to change that article to clarify and would like help making sure I do not do something to muddy a featured article. --David Tornheim (talk) 08:57, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

It happens a lot: Grand Canyon and Grand Canyon National Park, Mount Rainier and Mount Rainier National Park, Olympic Mountains and Olympic National Park, and so on. There are varying degrees of overlap. In all cases, it's a challenge to keep the subjects separate on on-target, but not impossible. In almost every case, there are enough differences between the subjects, once examined in detail, to keep the articles from restating each other in more than summary fashion. Acroterion (talk) 02:41, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. I drop the merge proposal. But I do think think this article should direct readers more clearly to see the valley article for more information about the valley.

Hence, I made this WP:BOLD edit to address my major concern. Please feel free to revert if you disagree. --David Tornheim (talk) 09:03, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

Emphasizing the distinction sounds good to me. Thanks for this. I will say that the number of subordinate clauses in that sentence makes my inner grammarian cringe just a bit, but I don't have a better solution. -- Scott (talk) 16:49, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

Reversion of "Accidental Deaths" section

I'm about to revert the newly created section on Accidental Deaths. Here's why:

• I reverted the list of deaths, as it is innapropriate to individually list hundreds of deaths unless a death is somehow notable. For example, under Grand Canyon, the only individually listed event was a plane crash that killed 128 people, and which has its own article.
• The specified source did NOT say many deaths are due to heat. It may very well be true, but is unsourced -- and car crashes cause the most deaths. Thus, I reverted this portion.
• Neither the average temperature, nor the average maximum temperature, reaches 120 F. Again, unsourced. Thus, I reverted this portion.

I'm not sure if a section on fatalities is a good idea. In any case, it would be undue to spend more than a few sentences on it, and would require sources that provide an overview. --Larry/Traveling_Man (talk) 23:53, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

Native American Tribe

This article can be expanded on the Timbisha Shoshone Tribe. Their page includes that with the establishment of the park they were not allowed to summer in the mountains despite the adobe dwelings built for them lacked AC or even basic utilities. Colonial Computer 01:59, 6 July 2022 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 22yearswothanks (talk • contribs)