Talk:Brown recluse spider

Remove Systemic Bias Tag/Label

I fail to see any systemic bias, considering this is the english language wiki, and an article on a spider that resides in the usa. Sounds like buzzword maniacs going overboard. Provide concrete examples that are evident to others outside the action committee of "too much time and self-righteous indignation on our hands" or remove the Bias Label. I would remove it myself however it does not appear that it can be edited in the same way as an article can.

BRS Habits

It seems that the normal thought is that the Brown Recluse Spider (BRS) is totally reclusive. This is not always the case. Through personal observation I saw a fully grown BRS in a fully occupied, fully lit room, traverse the room by crawling approximately 6 1/2 feet off of the floor, moving horizontally to the floor, to get past the occupants in the room. On another occasion I was sitting in my recliner and when I reached for the lamp on the end table, there was a young BRS on the lamp which was lit at the time. Many times I have seen it cross the middle of a floor at night in lit rooms.

In light of this the scientific community is a little lax in their definition of the BRS habits.

Kenschnauzer (talk) 20:20, 6 November 2008 (UTC)kenschnauzer

Ummm...where, exactly, in the article do you see any explicit definition of the spider's habits, or statements that they are "totally reclusive"? If that's not what the article says - and it certainly does not appear to be - then this is really a rhetorical question, and NOT an issue about "the scientific community" or this article. Are you just assuming, for some reason, that because the common name of the spider is "recluse", that this implies that scientists think these spiders never come out of hiding? Let me assure you, that is not the case. Dyanega (talk) 22:22, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Comment, January 2011

• Reclusive probably was chosen for the name because initial researchers had difficulty finding brown recluse spiders. In 1973 a co-worker, a naturalist with Texas Parks & Wildlife Department in Austin, told me a pertinent story. He felt a pricking sensation when he put on a work glove that had laid unused in his garage for some time; this was about 1969. He thought it was a splinter and gave it no more thought. That night he awakened with a pain on the top of his hand. Later he deduced that he had been bitten by a spider when he put on the glove. The tiny mark became an open wound within a week. He went to a doctor. The wound progressed to an open ulcer (sore) ca. 2cm across that would not heal with antibiotics; the wound did not heal over for several months. After research (without the Internet in 1969) he decided that the wound indicated a brown recluse spider. He discovered only one readily available credible account: by interlibrary loan he borrowed a master's thesis [I don't remember the source]; during his research the thesis author did not find a single brown recluse spider. The co-worker who was bitten sought brown recluses in the wild without success. Eventually he identified one in the attic of his own home, and over time he found others in his house. He believed that brown recluse spiders were much more common than suspected; being reclusive and their habits largely unknown, they simply had not been recognized and studied. He believed that brown recluse spiders can probably be found in most attics in central Texas.
• In 1982 my wife and I rented an old farmhouse a few miles east of Austin, Texas. The house was uninsulated and leaked water through the roof and leaked air through various places in the walls and floors. A couple months later our first child was born; our second was born four years later. Many spiders lived around and in the house. The easily identifiable spiders we caught and released, the unidentified we interned and tried to identify. Naturally we paid attention to big or hairy or fast or colorful or scary-looking creatures in our home, but paid less attention to smaller unremarkable spiders. After a few years I caught a small spider that with a common magnifying glass looked like a specimen pictured in a book [source will be cited]. We realized that we were ignoring smaller spiders. IMy younger daughter and I learned enough about BRSs that we can distinguish one quickly: by its stance, its gait, its defensive posture, its coloration from a distance, and its markings when viewed closely (rarely is it possible to observe its eye pattern, which in itself is not definitive but quite useful for identification). During those 15 years we killed and/or caught at least two dozen BRSs. When we left that farm house in 1997 we -- more precisely, I myself -- had collected maybe ten specimens. They are preserved in alcohol (alcohol allows the specimens to shrivel and discolor, unfortunately) along with that many more from our newer home in suburban Austin. I now believe that my co-worker of 37 years ago was correct: a great many houses in central Texas have BRSs residing in them.
• We very rarely use pesticides inside our home, and we -- more precisely, I myself -- allow virtually any non-BRS that's not too large and fast to continue on its way within our house. Allowing other spiders run of the house I believe has advantages. For example, the American House Spider's shape and web (snare) and habit of hanging upside down are similar to those of the Black Widow Spider, although the American House Spider has easily distinguishable brown patterns and is much smaller than an adult female Black Widow. Also, it choses corners in exposed places as well as under furniture. One American House Spider was allowed to stay in a particular corner of our house near the front door, under which we suspected that BRSs might be entering the house. Below that American House Spider's web over a period of some months we found the desiccated bodies (not the molted skins) of three Brown Recluse Spiders. Wayne Roberson, Austin, Texas (talk) 20:12, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

could someone correct this?

The phrase "The yellow sac spiders possess a cytotoxic venom known to contain several proteolytic enzymes including alkaline phosphatase, deoxyribonuclease, esterase, hyaluronidase, lipase, and ribonuclease." is not correct, since these enzyme are not proteolytic (i.e. they do not degrade proteins). You can confirm this if you take a look at the respective Wikipedia articles.

Also, many nucleases are included in the "esterase family".

Concluding, the correct wording should probably be "..several enzymes including.." or "..several proteolytic enzymes and also.." (i assume the venom _does_ contain proteolytic enzymes). Thank you.

-- Anonymous Coward —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.138.10.171 (talk) 12:52, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

The sentence you are objecting to is a direct quotation from a peer-reviewed article by a world authority on the topic, from the cited reference: "The venoms of Cheiracanthium spiders have not been well studied, but are now known to contain several proteolytic enzymes including alkaline phosphatase, deoxyribonuclease, esterase, hyaluronidase, lipase, and ribonuclease.43–47 Young and Pincus clearly demonstrated the presence of hyaluronidase and proteases in the digestive extracts of both Badumna insignis and Lampona cylindrata, and concluded that these enzymes contributed to the dermonecrotic effects of bites by these spiders.49" Note that this is a summary of six other scientific publications. You're obviously welcome to dispute this, but it's going to require some explicit statements from the scientific literature stating that these chemicals do NOT have proteolytic activity, rather than trying to use Wikipedia as your source. Dyanega 20:26, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Mistake?

In the opening section of the article it says "They seem to favor cardboard when dwelling in human poop, possibly because it mimics the rotting tree bark which they naturally inhabit." Is this vandalism, or a mistake? --71.106.184.185 18:24, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

It seems to have been vandalism. I undid it. --71.106.184.185 18:30, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

untitled

It is brown and usually has markings on the dorsal side of its thorax, with a black line coming from it that looks like a violin with the neck of the violin pointing to the rear of the spider resulting in the nickname "fiddleback spider" (not to be confused with the violin spider).

Yet, the Violin spider article says that "violin spider" is a nickname for the brown recluse. Which is it? Triped 22:55, Feb 8, 2005 (UTC)

Violin spiders are Italian and Fiddle Backs are English right :D whicky1978 04:00, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

This is one of those cases common in America of our animals getting the same names as European animals because they look somewhat alike. See polecat being a nickname for the skunk. Yes, it is confusing, even to us.--Scorpion451 17:57, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

It seems to me that there should be a disambiguation page for 'violin spider' Obviously it is a common name for the brown recluse spider found in the United States (Loxosceles sp), but it is also the main common name of a similar, but different spider, Loxosceles (other)sp, found in South Africa (at least.) The page automatically redirects here, but American brown recluses are not the only spiders called 'violin spiders'

Foxi tails Foxi tails (talk) 09:23, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Right you are. Fixed. Dyanega (talk) 00:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks:)Foxi tails (talk) 04:37, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Where?

No information on where this spider is most often found? (i.e. which parts of the world?)

Hopefully one day a german article about this will exist - then the name should be "de:Braune Einsiedlerspinne" - I just wanted to note this here, because on the one hand I'm not able to write an article in german about this, but on the other hand I'm interested in this spider, so probably someone is happy about the information how the german article will be named ;-) Because if someone wants to make "interwiki-links", it is not very easy to know the spider's name in each language! -- 212.119.140.165 20:51, 30 July 2005 (UTC) (de:Benutzer:Otto Normalverbraucher)

Violin spiders are Italian and Fiddle Backs are English right :D whicky1978 04:00, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

http://www.emedicine.com/EMERG/topic547.htm this page states in the history of the brown recluse, that it is also known as the fiddleback spider due to its markings.

This is one of those cases common in America of our animals getting the same names as European animals because they look somewhat alike. See polecat being a nickname for the skunk. Yes, it is confusing, even to us.--Scorpion451 17:57, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

To make the distribution correct, I have 2 confirmed Brown Recluse Spider bites in NE Ohio (both friends of mine), as well as me killing a mom and her babies in my basement. I took them to the local college, and they confirmed that it was a mother Brown Recluse and her babies. 76.188.154.155 (talk) 02:12, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Пожа

Переведите на русский...

The above unsigned comment says "Please Translate into Russian ..." --Keith111 (talk) 00:01, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Contradiction?

Death may result, likely to happen with young children, however, there have not been any recorded deaths to date.

If death has never been recorded, how can it be said to be "likely"? Loganberry (Talk) 00:13, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

Citation

The first footnote is unavailable to anyone without a subscription of some kind. --Jacqui M Schedler 01:16, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Scary looking spider how much venom???

is this the real brown recluse? http://www.ssc.nasa.gov/environmental/resource_mngmnt/natural_resources/poison/brnreclu.jpg it looks fake..Maoririder 19:31, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

A bit of myth-squashing

This article is better than most in giving accurate information about the spider rather than the common myths, but a bit too much emphasis is given to some things, like the "fiddle-back." Read [[1]] for general information, and [[2]], about identifying it. And about the "most are too small to bite through the skin"--I don't really know the truth about this, but look [[3]].

I found a website one night with my father one night when we were looking up this spider and they did an experiment with the Black widow and the Brown Recluse. They put the two together in a Glass Jar and they were content with eachother, but when they put a cricket in there fro them to eat, the Brown Recluse had killed and eaten the cricket and just killed the Back widow. The damage tot he Brown Recluse was ONE lost leg and he survived. I was very shocked.

From the Website www.spiderzrule.com/commonspidersusa.htm I found information on the brown Recluse's bite-

"When bitten, a blister arises around the area of the bite. The local pain becomes intense with the wound sloughing tissue (loxoscelism) often down to the bone. Healing takes place slowly and may take 6 to 8 weeks. If the bite of a brown recluse spider is suspected, collect the spider and consult a physician immediately". So yes, the bite can be very serious, nothing small like the last guy said. ----- Kelly "lilwheel88" 5/21/2007

Actually, it is both. Most brown recluse bites heal with no problems beyond a small blister. In rare cases the body reacts badly to the bite, generating the necrosis. The exact causes for this are not totally known but seem to be related to level of dosage (ie how bad of a bite), allergies to the venom, and whether prexisting problems such as poor circulation or hepatitus are present. I can confirm this, as my father works as a logistical manager in a salvage yard here in Texas.(the combination of lots of dark, gutted cars to hide in and the presence of various vermin make it a paradice for poisonous things) It has occured several times that someone will get bitten by a brown recluse and ignore the bite because it was no big deal the last time they got bitten by one, as is usually the case, only to react badly and end up in the doctors office getting their "loxoscelism" worked on. If someone in the medical field could provide a citation from a medical journal for cases such as one of these, rather than just my anecdotal evidence, it would probably go a long way to clearing up this "sometimes it's only a blister, other times you end up in the ER" confusion.--Scorpion451 15:40, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

"I found a website one night with my father one night" you don't actively edit do you?

65.114.231.74 09:36, 21 September 2007 (UTC)About the death being "likely" for children with a brown recluse bite, although there has been no recorded deaths, I believe they mean to say that a death from a brown recluse would be more likely in a child than in an adult. The bite of a brown recluse is dangerous and if left untreated, especially in a vital area, could likely result in the death of a child, or an elderly person, as I would imagine, as well. 65.114.231.74 09:36, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

"I found a website one night with my father one night" you don't actively edit do you?

Picture of eye pattern?

Since the eye pattern is characteristic, does someone have an appropriate picture that can be used in Wikipedia? I'll post it in Wikipedia:Requested pictures if no one has one handy. Thanks. Catbar (Brian Rock) 10:24, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

I added a crop of a picture which shows the eyes very well, but I am not quite happy with where it is placed. If anybody can get it to look a bit better I'd appreciate it. Pennywisdom2099 (talk) 18:53, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Coin Caption

Could someone edit the caption of the shot of the spider on a coin so that the caption mentions the type of coin? Not everyone can look at the "heads" side of an American coin and determine the denomination (including me).

I added to the caption for you. I agree that not everyone in the world will know what a quarter looks like or what a quarter is for that matter.The Real Stucco 21:03, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

You forgot to say "The U.S. isn't the world." Didn't you get the memo? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.32.49.1 (talk) 02:37, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

What?!

The article states that the spider is not usually found west of the Rockies? We have them all over the place in California.

Also, I have a hard time believing that there have been no recorded deaths unless they were called something else because they are thought of as the worst spider in California. That is including Black Widows.

---

We have them all over the place in California.

No, you don't. There are no brown recluses in California.

Yes, you see when a brown recluse spider travels from Kentucky to California in a UPS truck, it brings with it a tiny map and compass (younger spiders have GPS-equipped Blackberries). It will not exit the vehicle and move into a damp basement in California because it is aware of the high crime rate and dwindling property values in California. The spider will therefore wait until it reaches a nice neighborhood in Arkansas or Missouri. Annoyed with fanboys (talk) 02:37, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

People seem to be overlooking that these spiders can get into baggage and travel to areas outside of their natural range, where they then set up small colonies. This can happen ANY WHERE. It is extremely unlikely (if not impossible) for small colonies of Brown Recluse spiders NOT to establish themselves in California simply from residents who frequently travel out of state. All the spider needs is a warm, damp, dark, humid area with a lot of food; any basement in California.Annoyed with fanboys (talk) 02:05, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

We also have them here in flordia as well we have them in rather large numbers in south alabama...as well however we on the otherhand can spell "florida"

I've been told by "experts" (pest control) that there are no Brown Recluse Spiders in Florida. However, a friend of mine was bit on the hand by one in 2006 and wound up in the hospital for two weeks. We caught the spider and took it to the hospital. It was identified as a Brown Recluse. Several weeks later, I was also bit and had to take antibiotics. We saw the spiders in both incidents. They were unmistakeably Brown Recluse. Just yesterday I found a dead Brown Recluse, I showed it to my father and we compared it to photos and videos on the internet. Again, it was unmistakeably a Brown Recluse.Annoyed with fanboys (talk) 02:05, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Lol you can't spell it either.

There has always been a dispute between spider experts and residents of southern California as to whether or not the Brown Recluse is present in California. I was once inclinded to believe that it was, having witnessed several bites that bore the distinct pattern of a Brown Recluse and, being all too familiar with the bite pattern from my days in the field as an anthropologist and archeologist. However, over my years in southern CA, I have seen more such bites where the culprit was another spider or indeed, a Tick. Necrosis of tissue and a bullseye pattern are not unique to Brown Recluse bites. I believe now that the cases I saw early in my residence in CA were cases of misidentification. There are relatives of the brown recluse that live here and which are seen by residents who have not seen a Brown Recluse up close. it is not uncommon to mistake them for a Brown Recluse if you only have a general idea of their appearance. The best resource to help with this is cited in the article. let me show the link again here:

Myth of the Brown Recluse: Fact, Fear, and Loathing by Rick Vetter of the Department of Entomology, University of California, Riverside, CA

In my humble opinion, It should be required reading for anyone living in Southern CA. We have way more Black Widows here than realtives of the Brown Recluse and they are much more of a daily concern.LiPollis 05:55, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

I hate to be a know it all, but the black widow isn't that dangerous unless your extremly allergic, just annoyingly painful otherwise.--Scorpion451 15:51, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

It is common misinformation put out by "researchers" like Mr. Vetter that there are no brown recluse spiders in California and other places. The fact is that brown recluse spiders can be found anywhere that FedEx or UPS delivers or anywhere there is a road that carries vehicles from other parts of the country or world. Mr. Vetter seems to make his career on articles where he continually repeats the same inane and uninformed statements about the myths of brown recluse spider bites. He offers no evidence to support his claims.-Posted by 12.213.112.56 7-29-2007

Yes, as we all know, experts on spiders are highly unreliable sources of information on spiders. There are no Brown Recluse spiders in Califorina. As he mentions in his article, the one or two spiders that may hitch a ride on an antique are not able to survive for long in the radically different climate of California, let alone find the one other spider that just happened to be shipped to California and survive the irradiation, ect. designed to prevent outside species like fruit flies into California, and establish a breeding population. What evidence is there to offer? A lack of a spider? An empty jar? The lack of evidence against something is not proof of something. Claiming there are brown recuses in California is like claiming the moon is made of green cheese.--scorpion 451 rant 15:55, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Actually, the above argument is neither reasonable nor that of an expert. It's not one or two spiders hitching a ride, its thousands hitching rides at different times, under a variety of conditions, as far back as there has been consistent interstate transportation. A warm, damp, dark basement in California or Florida is not different than a warm, damp, dark basement in Kentucky. The brown recluse can thrive in any area where it has cover, the right temperature and humidity (artificial or natural), darkness, and a consistent food source. It is probably all over the continental United States. It is certainly in Florida. Annoyed with fanboys (talk) 02:20, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

There was a fairly recent (March 5th 2007) article in the New Yorker about finding brown recluse spiders in Los Angeles. [4]. It's not clear from the abstract of the article, but in the full version the author claims to have found many brown recluse spiders in LA.

--71.106.184.185 18:22, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

The New Yorker has also published articles by people who claimed to have found alien artifacts in their backyards. Don't believe something just because the New Yorker prints it, they are notorious for print first, check the facts later.--Scorpion451 rant 06:18, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

I think someone is confusing the New Yorker for the National Enquirer. Annoyed with fanboys (talk) 02:27, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Hundreds of thousands of vehicles cross into California each day. Many more packages arrive. Are each of these "irradiated"? Are brown recluse spiders unable to survive living in heated homes or California's "radically different climate"? The myth that there are no brown recluse spiders in the entire state of California is the strangest myth of all. The "evidence" that is needed to support this myth is to prove what the alternate source of the necrotic "brown recluse" bites suffered by hundreds of Californians each year.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.213.112.36 (talk • contribs) 00:34, 6 August 2007 (UTC).

They were bit by brown recluse spiders on vacation, not resident brown recluse spiders. Brown recluse spiders avoid the state of California because of a pact the Loxosceles reclusa species made with Mickey Mouse. Just ask expert Rick Vetter. He will tell you all about it. Annoyed with fanboys (talk) 02:43, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

According to other websites I've researched, I found that there may not be the loxosceles reclusa in California, Arizona and NM, but there are other related loxosceles species, such as arizonica, deserta and apachea. Whether the bites are as dangerous or not, I have no idea, but I think it's a mistake to tell people that they simply do not exist west of the Rockies.

See: http://dermatology.cdlib.org/DOJvol5num2/special/recluse.html

or: http://www.ca.uky.edu/entomology/entfacts/ef631.asp

And I have photographs of a few of the "desert brown spiders" that live in Tucson that I can submit if you're interested, too.

Thanks for listening!

Blondesoprano (talk) 02:15, 9 June 2008 (UTC)blondesopranoBlondesoprano (talk) 02:15, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

If you read the article, you'll see that reference is made to the other species of Loxosceles that are native in the western US. They are not brown recluses; the brown recluse is a single species, Loxosceles reclusa, and they do NOT occur in the Western US, and there is nothing wrong with telling people that fact. Dyanega (talk) 02:21, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Abw102501 (talk) We have them all over Arizona. I have also taken a Biology class at Scottsdale Community College and the brown recluse is listed as a native arachnid of Arizona. To say that they are not in Arizona would be wrong, incorrect, an error, or you just haven't looked hard enough to find one. (User: ABW102501) July 11, 2008. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Abw102501 (talk • contribs) 08:13, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, they do not occur in Arizona - in Arizona they have several species such as the desert recluse, Loxosceles deserta and the Arizona recluse, Loxosceles arizonica. Trust me, the spider experts have SEEN all the spiders in Arizona, and the Brown recluse is NOT one of them. End of story. If someone at Scottsdale Community College thinks they occur there, then he has an earth-shaking news scoop he needs to share with the arachnological community - but good luck trying to find any specimens to prove it, though. He'll be searching for a LONNNNNNNNNNG time. Dyanega (talk) 15:59, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

From the Mayo Clinic site: http://www.mayoclinic.org/news2005-sct/2764.html

"(...)The upshot of Dr. Swanson's research, in partnership with a researcher from the Department of Entomology at the University of California, Riverside, is that brown recluse spiders are not plentiful in Arizona and that "bites" are rare and often mask symptoms of more serious conditions.(...)Arizona is not at great risk for the brown recluse spiders, the physician says, because only their cousins reside here and those cousins tend to stay away from the cities. "Diagnoses of bites outside of their endemic areas are highly suspect," Dr. Swanson adds.""

I would like to note also that I am a 30 year Arizona resident who has known personally several people who have told me they've had serious brown recluse bites. Amongst them, my mother who had to have a very large and deep portion of tissue on her finger removed as necrotic, and a neighbor who showed me his half missing calf from an alleged brown recluse bite. Now I'm not saying it *is* Loxosceles reclusa, but whatever it is, I don't see the point in arguing semantics. They call harvestmen and crane flies 'daddy longlegs' too... Misdiagnosis; yes. Loads of poisonous critters in Arizona; yes! Iruparazzo (talk) 12:47, 24 August 2008 (UTC)Iruparazzo

I just want to drop this piece of news here: Late last year a carpenter who I used to contract was bitten by a spider and sadly died. The diagnosis of cause of death was "brown recluse spider envenomation". This happened in Eureka, Northern California. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.101.47.107 (talk) 18:49, 13 January 2010 (UTC) just wanted to add Im in florida and somewhere on this article it claimed that there was no brown recluse in the state and someone mentioned that there freind was bitten well im here to definitely say they are here and they are all they way up the east coast as well ....ive found on many of occasions ive discovered them in my vehicles yes mutiple vehicles thus I own ...for some reason I believe that they are attracted to cars for the cracks and crevices and it being dry for it does rain a great deal just about everyday here ....with that being said it would be nieve to think that they are not making there way to other states such as california or more northern states such it could potentially be just a car ride away for them ,in one day I located three of them in one of my vehicles that was not driven for a while

In common parlance ALL Loxosceles spiders are called the brown recluse. The majority of them have the same type of venom (with the same effect) and unless you are an expert they appear virtually indistinguishable from one another. End of argument. Annoyed with fanboys (talk) 02:50, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Dear Mr. Fanboys: for one thing, interspersing comments in the middle of old comments makes it really confusing to read the original text, and makes it hard to respond to comments you make. In any event, your basic claim that brown recluses can survive and breed wherever they are carried is demonstrably not true. They have NOT become established anywhere outside of their native range, despite decades of people carrying them all over the place. If they had, someone would have found some actual specimens and turned them in to authorities and had their presence confirmed. No one has. It's called "empirical evidence". If it were possible for them to become established anywhere else, they certainly should have by now, yet they haven't. I'd be really interested to see any comments from arachnologists in Florida that confirm the presence of these spiders there. Claims from non-experts, especially those in newspapers or from medical doctors, are absolutely NOT reliable sources. It's simple: if someone outside the range of this species produces the specimens, then the experts can confirm it and report it. Rick Vetter would be happy to get some; in decades accepting shipments, no one has sent him any brown recluses from established populations outside the native range - they have ALL been misidentified, or single spiders found in luggage, and NOT found subsequently. Peace, Dyanega (talk) 18:28, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Dyanega, you are making large blanket statements based upon basically nothing; the idea that the spiders come into California or other areas and find a place to set up a colony is ridiculous, you would need a breding pair to get off in exactly the same spot and in short term both make it to the same stable environment. However, you are failing to take into account people that have trailers or other long term storage that move from a recluse's natural habitat. I have been a cabinet maker for many years, and in 1984 I moved from Carthage, AK, to San Diego CA. I took with me a storage trailer with wood piles that had laid mostly undisturbed in the last 5 years. I had previous problems with spiders in that same trailer, and they appeared to me to be brown recluses, as far as i could tell from the fiddle backs (but I am not an expert). Once I had made the move i put my wood in a shed that was temperature and humidity controlled, as there were some valuable pieces with a lot of figure in them, and I did not want them to crack because of the difference in climate. In April of 1990 my daughter was bit by a spider and had developed a lesion after some initial blistering. We took her to the hospital and she was treated for brown recluse venom, though I found out from Dr. Bertozzi that the hospital uses a general treatment for that type of toxin, thus nothing conclusive. After hearing for many years after my move that there were no brown recluse spiders, I was curious to what had bitten my daughter. So, a few months later I caught one of the spiders out in my woodshed, and took it into the biology department at UCSD; it was verified as a brown recluse (Loxosceles reclusa). Now I am not saying that there are many others present in California outside of isolated communities like the one I unwittingly fostered, but to overlook the possibility of these spiders living in climate controlled areas, especially those around lumber (a favorite place to live) is just being hard-headed. There is no evidence that a spider in a temperature and humidity controlled trailer, house, shed, or anywhere else wood is stored, cured, or dried, should suddenly die if that ecological pocket happens to cross the rockies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.100.143.143 (talk) 07:48, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

exactly. the use of one's scientific credentials to assert something which that person cannot empirically prove, ie that there are no brown recluse populations west of the rockies, is actually a social and illogical practise. I check wells in NM and have found several brown recluse colonies. I know a local woman who lost a chunk of her thighs and only responded to brown recluse medical protocol. I think that as a layman using the english name of this spider, we might consider it a genus (rather than a species) with several toxin evolutions. The map, therefore, is deceptive from the perspective of providing useful information. --kdog — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.119.165.243 (talk) 14:28, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

First, a trailer or shed is not supporting a population of spiders. Second, I'd be interested as to who at UCSD made the ID. That's right near me. Dyanega (talk) 04:46, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Seems the article states places like NC GA and South VA don't have these in high populations. That would be highly incorrect information. They're common all over the south east. I kill them here all the time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.169.224.103 (talk) 12:39, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

They're uncommon but definitely present in CA. I just caught one in my house in Nevada County, CA last night. Identical to the images shown here (thought definately a male, given large pedipalps and small abdomen). There's also a mass Woodhouse toad invasion I witnessed a couple years ago in Tahoe; they were breeding, and swarming over a bridge. Also only supposed to be present in the Eastern US. --108.248.164.190 (talk) 20:08, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

As someone in the Bay Area who is currently recovering from a brown recluse spider bite, one which matched the listed symptoms almost perfectly & no other plausible explanation presents itself, I've had time to read this whole thread and and the articles by Vetter. I don't think Vetter should be considered valid unless buttressed by additional sources, as Vetter's articles are 5-8 years old and their primary sources tend to be other articles by Vetter. Experts can be wrong. The core of his case seems to be that no samples of live brown recluse have been turned in to the UC Riverside entomology department. That hardly seems like a useful statistic, since it assumes quite a bit on the part of the public to select data. It certainly seems like they're present, if not as endemic as other regions, and there is enough evidence to state it, even if described as controversial or with Vetter's counterclaims. At the very least, it should be noted that the claim of no brown recluses in CA all come from one person. 76.102.29.147 (talk) 22:56, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

References

Vandalism

"Spider" has been replaced with "Horse" Stinkman 05:55, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

"Recluse" replaced with "retard" by 74.137.232.12 17:08, 19 June 2009. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.79.109.45 (talk)

Removed arguably vulgar sexual statement posted from Habitats section 03:23, 14 June 2009 Bastiantonto (talk | contribs) (23,139 bytes) (→Habitat) (undo) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.197.130.63 (talk)

No swelling?

This article states that the venom of a black recluse does not produce swelling. Some of the sites I've seen, a few of which were moderately reliable, state otherwise. In fact, tyhe "Ohio University Fact Sheet" cited by this article claims that swelling will occur. Can someone produce a sound, reliable source for the lack of swelling? Otherwise, I'm going to edit it out.

See my comment higher on this page, anecdotal and seeking a citation from an authoritative article(I know I have seen the information, but I cannot find the article I read) that depending on the person and the circumstances of the bite that reaction can range from a small blister to a large slow healing wound.--Scorpion451 15:48, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Dry or Damp?

From this article:

"These spiders frequently build their webs in woodpiles and sheds, closets, garages, and other places that are dry and generally undisturbed."

And...

"First and foremost, Brown Recluse spiders are attracted to dark and damp spaces."

A bit of a contradiction. Should be corrected or at least explained.

Dalliance13 04:43, 29 June 2007 (UTC)dalliance13

Dry as opposed to sopping wet. They like the dampness because in the wild they like to live in rotting trees or leaves. It would probably be clearer to say humid than damp.--Scorpion451 16:50, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Treatment

As an alternative medicine practitioner, there are some alternative treatments that can be quite effective. I don't know Wikipedia's policy on touting specific products but assume it's a no-no and won't list those. Therefore, a VERY simple and immediately effective method of treating a brown recluse bite is the application of activated charcoal. Simply open the capsule, wet the surface of a bandage (any type) and sprinkle the charcoal liberally on the bandage. Press this onto the wound and tape it firmly in place. Change every 2 hours the first 24 hours, then every 4 hours the next day and twice a day after that. Arguments FOR this: it's safe and does not interfere with any other treatments, it's inexpensive, readily available, can be done at home by anyone and you should see results immediately. If you don't see changes within 12 hours, then of course see your doctor. I have used this with anxious clients who are quite freaked out when their skin starts to turn black (necrosis). Of course everyone should see their doctor whenever they want to but for those who don't have one, it's too expensive or they have seen a doctor and are not seeing results, this is a viable alternative. Arguments against this: no one is making any money on the treatment.

It's not JUST a matter of "touting specific products", which is prohibited, but also a matter of excluding UNSOURCED and UNVERIFIABLE statements, such as the one you make above. If you can find a reliable source for either the effectiveness (which requires an unambiguous citation of a controlled study) or even just the widespread use of activated charcoal as a remedy, then it could be considered for inclusion. Otherwise, it does not belong in Wikipedia, as it would violate guidelines on verifiability, original research, and notability. It's really pretty simple.

The argument against this, incidentally, is that if people use a treatment that is not effective they might choose NOT to seek PROPER treatment - because they are under the mistaken impression that what they have done on their own will be good enough. For example, you are explicitly advising people, above, to wait 12 hours before seeing a doctor. If a person KNOWS, for a fact that they have JUST been bitten by a brown recluse, then there is no reason to wait; that just gives the venom 12 extra hours to do damage. Following your advice is potentially dangerous, since countermeasures against the venom are more effective the sooner they are applied. Dyanega 21:14, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

The statement "In presumed cases of recluse bites, dapsone is often used effectively for the treatment of necrosis, but controlled clinical trials do not demonstrate similar effectiveness" doesn't make sense. How can dapsone be used "efectively" and yet no clinical trials have demonstrated it. There is no support of efficacy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.22.21.50 (talk) 17:55, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Why doesn't someone that knows how to edit, SEARCH THE WEB and put in the article THE FACT that 25,000 volts from a stun gun, administered twice, will 100% neutralized the poison and REMOVE the pain within seconds. This knowledge has been on the Internet over ten years. There were quite a few doctors who were promoting it but apparently the AMA put a stop to that.

Look at this. The medical profession HAS NO REMEDY and will charge a person THOUSANDS of dollars for treatment, and WILL NOT TELL THEM about stun guns, which WILL eliminate the problem IMMEDIATELY. The public deserves to know this and you guys that edit can EASILY find this information.76.6.94.150 (talk) 01:31, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

I'm sure one can find information on the web that Elvis is alive and shacked up with Osama Bin Laden in Pittsburgh. It has to come from reliable sources, or we can't use it. Period. Chuck Entz (talk) 05:14, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Duplicate references

I just made an edit (about the lack of these spiders in California) with a reference that turns out to be a duplicate reference. The reference is to http://spiders.ucr.edu/myth.html. Isn't there a way to reuse references in an article?

New pictures added

There you go, enjoy y'all. I took pictures of this monster. This one has been put in the page now and here are two more. Hopefullt this will help people identify this devil and keep them out of their homes.

--Brown-recluse-guy (talk) 05:14, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Moved from Talk:Brown recluse spider/Comments

My name is Les Murphy. I am currently in an invasion of Brown Recluse'. I'm finding them in my sinks and bathtubs every other week or so. I live in O'Fallon Missouri. I kill them (with a lot of jumping and flopping) with wasp spray. The spider spray takes too long. I used to have house spiders but do not find any alive more. The Recluse have taken over. I'm currently fixing the cracks in my foundation to dry my basement and take away their environment. I have set the sticky paper traps and caught countless fiddlers. I spray and spray, and I cant get rid of them. I'll seek profesional help soon. The reason behind this postine is that I brought one of my freshly deceased roomates to a palentoligist friend of mine with macro photography capabilities... The pics are awesome and blow away anything I've seen before of pics or the Brown Recluse. It doesnt qualify up there with the recent Bigfoot find, (lol) but Entomologists and Arachniods freaks will definately want to take note how these pics happened. My friend Barry claims he had very little knowledge of spiders when he shot the pics of a very alive looking spider on the tip of his finger. I'm thinking he really freaked out when the two stinger claws appeared to be sunk into his finger after he reviewed the pics (with the 4 bulbs of venom)I hope I'm not the first to point out that there are 4 venom sacs. I told my friend Barry that he's probably going to be known as the "Steve Irwin" of spiders now. Barry has been contracted by National Geographic for his excellence in photography. They are that realistic. If anyone who knows what a brown recluse is sees these.... They will freak out!! For now, until I get the OK from Barry to release them, you may contact me by phone or email me. He assured me they may become available soon through google pics. He has a cute story to tell. The pics are amazing and I would recommend any Entomologist to look Barry up. When you see the pics... You'll know why. You can see every hair in every leg in detail. I can be reached by phone at 636-240-5412 or just email me back at Murf3045@aol.com These pics were taken a few years ago. I'm still knee deep in Brown Recluse... Barry still has his camera...? I'm thinking we can do even better. Trust me when I say these are the best pics of a Brown Recluse on the Web (lol) Not a pun...? (moved by mattb 15:37, 28 August 2008 (UTC))

If he's got any photos he doesn't mind releasing under a free-for-business-use license, we can accept those. Just post them here once he releases them; we'll review them then. Bob the Wikipedian ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:08, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

More photos

I took a few photos of an adult male brown recluse (this was confirmed by an entomologist) and uploaded them. If you'd like to use them in the article, feel free to. -- mattb 15:39, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Excellent lighting and clarity. Would have been nicer though if it was a better pose or the spider had its legs in an active more 'alive' position. --Brown-recluse-guy (talk) 20:18, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Actually it was very much alive when I took these. -- mattb 21:05, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Interesting... I wish I was able to take the photo in the same quality you did. Looks great. I'm not sure which is the best photo for the main table. Replace it with yours if you think its better. What equipment did you use? A microscope of some sort too? --Brown-recluse-guy (talk) 04:29, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

I used a cheap SLR (Nikon D40) and a general purpose 18-55mm zoom lens. Just take a lot of exposures and have patience and you're bound to get a couple decent ones. -- mattb 12:38, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Map

The map probably needs correction as the article includes Brazil and these are also known in South Africa (as Violin spiders). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.54.202.114 (talk) 18:02, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

See page here about the genus. This article does not include Brazil or South Africa in any significant manner as far as I can tell, just passing mention in the treatment of bites which is essentially the same all across the genus. Arachnowhat (talk) 20:23, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Help with identification?

I found a spider in my house I thought might be a Brown Recluse, but I'm not sure. I snapped some photos of it, and made a side-by-side comparison with a brown recluse photo I found online. I know this isn't really related to the article, but can any of you tell me if my spider was a brown recluse, and if not, what it is? Here's the photo. Thanks. MamaGeek ^{(talk/contrib)} 19:27, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Nope, not a brown recluse. Not sure what it is, maybe a grass spider [5] --Brown-recluse-guy (talk) 19:27, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Another contradiction?

From the article:

Since the violin pattern is not diagnostic, and other spiders may have similar marking (i.e. cellar spiders and pirate spiders), for purposes of identification it is far more important to examine the eyes. Differing from most spiders, which have eight eyes, recluse spiders have six eyes arranged in pairs (dyads) with one median pair and two lateral pairs.

However, the cellar spiders have the same "unique" eye arrangement. Like the violin pattern, the eye pattern is not diagnostic either. 70.189.64.126 (talk) 04:33, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Merge?

What is the difference between this spider and the Recluse Spider, should they not be merged? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.215.240.1 (talk) 14:13, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Recluse spider is the genus, and it includes many species, including the Chilean recluse and the Mediterranean recluse. StAnselm (talk) 02:32, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Distribution - Florida?

We have been getting these in Brevard County, Florida, not particularly near the other Florida counties which have them. Up to now this has been "anecdotal" as they say, but reported several times a year in the paper and television for the past 20 years or so. See, for example, http://www.mcmsonline.org/pdf/may/SummerPerils.pdf. I don't know what it takes to get it in here "officially." Student7 (talk) 23:03, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

As I noted above, it's simple: what it takes to get in here officially is a report from a reliable source, meaning someone who actually knows how to identify spiders, and has seen brown recluse specimens from Florida; papers, TV, and medical doctors are not reliable sources. There are no "other Florida counties which have them" - they do not occur in Florida at all. If they did, someone would have produced a specimen by now. You familiar with "Habeas corpus"? Dyanega (talk) 18:34, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Communication with G.B. Edwards, the go-to-guy for spider bites in Florida, indicates that Florida, like virtually every other state in the US, only gets sporadic records of one recluse at a time, often associated with someone who has traveled recently to the midwest. He knows of no established populations (and they've been looking really hard to FIND any established populations). That's the definitive word from the definitive authority. Recluses get transported, but they do not establish extralimital populations. People outside the midwest should be gratified to know this, but it seems like we're a culture built on paranoia, so everyone prefers to think that there are recluses everywhere, because it gives them something else to be afraid of. Peace, Dyanega (talk) 16:01, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Question?

On the BRS wikipedia page, when was the map last updated? Because i saw a brown recluse in my hometown in NC, so i'm wondering if you could update it, and the city i'm in is high point nc.

The spider might be a native. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.75.143.128 (talk) 22:31, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

They're not native to NC, so the odds are about 99% that it was either not a brown recluse, or not one that was *born* there. Bring a specimen to a spider expert, if you think you've got them. Dyanega (talk) 01:56, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Hmm, it was about adult size, so could the "if theres one there might be two" speech apply here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.75.143.128 (talk) 04:34, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Bring one to an expert. Until then, I - for one, speaking *as* an expert - do not believe that is what you've got there. I've seen over 200 spiders that untrained people have identified as brown recluses over the years here in California, and NOT ONE was a recluse. You can't trust untrained people to ID spiders. Dyanega (talk) 05:49, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

California victim

They are wrong to say that the brown recluse is not in California. At this very moment my sister is undergoing surgery to remove the infection caused by a bit from one of these spiders. She received it at her home in Dobbins, California. She was putting on her coat and one fell out. It wound up on her right thigh where it bit. She has be undergoing treatments for this bite for the last month and they are trying to save her leg. I have captured one at 18 Grand Avenue Apartment #21 Oroville, Ca 95965 and had the pest tech take it to prove they are indeed in California. More research needs to go into this by whatever agency is appropriate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.238.88.54 (talk) 21:38, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

The recluses that inhabit California are not brown recluses, but there are other recluse spiders there which are extremely similar. One of two things has occurred here:

Most likely, your pest control agency hasn't been trained to be able to tell the difference between the different species of recluses, as doing so requires observing the spider's genitals under a microscope.

Secondly, any brown recluses found in California are stowaways that came through the mail and will most likely have offspring as they will not find a suitable mate.

I'm not saying your sister didn't get bitten severely by a recluse, but I am saying that unless this was one of the stowaways from the Midwest, this is probably one of the other species of recluse. Bob the Wikipedian ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:54, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

You say "surgery to remove the infection" - that means it could have literally been any spider species at all; ANY bite by ANY spider can become infected. An infection is a completely different thing from a necrotic wound. Next time you catch a spider, send it to an expert, not a pest tech. Dyanega (talk) 22:29, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

BTW, experts have been doing research on this for over 20 years, and it's the experts doing this research that have demonstrated that there are no brown recluses in California. People like you ask for research, and for expert opinions, and when the experts come back after decades of study and tell you there are no brown recluses here, all anyone does is argue with them. No amount of money and research is going to find spiders where they don't exist, nor convince anyone who has already made up their minds that they KNOW there are brown recluses here. A recent paper explaining the psychology of false beliefs in brown recluse bites is "Myths based in science and medicine – how they initiate, propagate and the role of peer-review research in dispelling them" by

Richard S. Vetter, the world authority on recluse bites, published in CAB Reviews: Perspectives in Agriculture, Veterinary Science, Nutrition and Natural Resources 2010 5, No. 041. Dyanega (talk) 22:38, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Challenged statement

"though many claim to find pain relief, venom elimination, and even complete healing through the use of inexpensive active carbon (or charcoal) salves" this bit needs some citation. Sounds like homeopathic nonsense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.111.92.151 (talk) 00:15, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

California's recluses

This article seems to attract a lot of Californians...so I figured it's time we set up an article on the brown recluse's Doppelgänger, the desert recluse. If anyone has photos or information, it's more than welcome. Bob the WikipediaN ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:24, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

mess in mass, light avoidance and seriousness

the logic of saying small colonies do not represent an invasion seems a little weak.

in central massachusetts my housemate had a black disk the size of doily that never healed properly. i finally caught one of these things last night that have been crawling on me at night. also, i met a person in lower vermont who had had many serious but untraceable symptoms. finally she had exploratory surgery and her liver was one third jelly and scar tissue. in many cases, including at major hospitals, determination of a brown recluse bite is by process of elimination. i lived in kansas for two years and became way too familiar with these critters, and had them verified by a bug person at ksu.

also the criticism of light avoidence is correct. it is not a hard rule. in kansas i saw them all the time.

i think sometimes wikipedia errs on the side of cautious balance. the symptoms can vary widely. i*ve known people who definitely felt a bite and had no symptoms. contrawise, i met a kid at ksu who felt no bite but his arm felt odd, and a day later he was in the ICU unconscious. ditto for the lady with liver damage.

184.74.68.165 (talk) 18:00, 23 May 2011 (UTC)grumpy

While your feelings and beliefs are understandable...there just is not documented evidence that backs up such things especially in light of things such as [6] and the somewhat famous 1000(2k?) or so specimens collected in one house with no documented bites in Kansas. Most, if not all, of these rapidly progressing medical problems and mysterious symptoms/illnesses are not related to spider, fly, or any kind of bite at all. Spiders are scary to many people and they get a lot of undeserved and unsupported flack, but they can in some cases cause serious damage...the ones you mentioned just dont (aside from possibly your housemate) sound like they fit with the presentations of loxosceles bites that I have read and heard about. Even so, anyone with such problems should be consulting a doctor not wikipedia, and yes, even then you are correct many cases are a process of elimination, but the literature suggests many times when this is the conclusion. It may be that the wrong things have been eliminated or not looked into at all, like other causes of necrosis.

The information presented in this article on wikipedia is backed up by verified bite reports, years of research, thousands of specimens, and many people's combined expertise...it is not meant to be taken as the end all be all of information about the topic but it is supposed to present the consistent, documented, and relevant facts that will fit for the majority of cases. - Subverted (talk • contribs) 20:17, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Footnotes are in a column - please change the layout

The footnotes are in a long column down the page. It would look much nicer if someone would move around the text and place the footnotes into regular format. (I don't know how to make that change.) Thank you. Reverence Still (talk) 21:32, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Five seasons without food

I remember reading this in a journal last summer; a researcher kept a captive brown recluse for five seasons with no food. Unfortunately, I've graduated and no longer have access to the journal databases. Can someone track this down? Thanks! Bob the WikipediaN ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:16, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

"Domestic variety" is not defined.

While it has its own section: "Domestic variety as a pest," and is mentioned one other place: "The wild variety lives in the southern states ranging from central Texas to western Georgia, and the domestic variety lives in the lower reaches of the Midwest," this so-called "variety" (and "species") is not defined, nor are its characteristics or differences if any, or not, given.
If this can't be done, suggest expanding the range from "the South" to include the southern Midwest, and deleting "domestic variety."

Following one of the footnotes of Domestic variety as a pest (Sandidge and Hopwood) I find this interesting titbit in the abstract: "Loxosceles reclusa, the brown recluse spider, is by far the most abundant spider species in many homes throughout the south-central United States." If confirmed, this should be in the article.
--68.127.83.38 (talk) 05:38, 13 May 2012 (UTC)Doug Bashford

"Variety" isn't meant in the technical sense here. Perhaps there's a better word..."population"? I do find that claim by Sandidge and Hopwood odd, since all the journal articles I've read say the domesticism is exclusively limited to the southern Midwest where the species is not as well-adapted for the wilderness. Perhaps by "south central" they were referring either to the entire domain of the species or to the southern portion of the central U.S., not including the southernmost states? The statement is very vague as it stands. Bob the WikipediaN ^{(talk • contribs)} 01:19, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Case

Jessica Carlisle from Alabama lost her five year old son Branson aged 5 [7]. -- Simplicius (talk) 09:55, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

Ok but how old was he? Captainllama (talk) 16:08, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

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Comments for Behavioral Ecology Class

This entry presents a good general description of the brown recluse spider. I especially like the description of the behaviors of the spider when it is threatened as well as the descriptions of their bites. The article describes how it usually flees and avoids conflict by playing dead. I also found it interesting how they display autotomy (shedding their appendage if hurt) but that they don’t regenerate the appendage. These spiders instead change their way of moving to compensate for the loss. There is no information about the social behavior of these spiders and whether they live in groups or prefer to live and get food as individuals. Also, there is a lack of details about their prey capture techniques and predators. The only information mentioned is that males tend to move when hunting while females tend to remain near their webs. Additionally, there is little information about the mating behavior of these spiders. All that is mentioned is that sometimes an unreceptive female will cannibalize an aggressive male. This article was ranked B-class on the quality sale with high-importance which means that it is missing some important sections and content, but is on the right track. The talk page was pretty active and people were asking for more information about where these spiders are most often found and asking for more clarification about the social behavior of these spiders (are they really “recluse” or is that just in the name). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Saachijain (talk • contribs) 22:23, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

Behavioral Ecology Assignment comment

The Wikipedia entry for this spider has very detailed, thorough information on bites and the corresponding treatment alternatives. The descriptions are all very clear and concise, making the article easy to follow and includes a wide variety of topics, such has bite treatments and living distribution. One part I found very interesting was the fact that the brown recluse can survive up to six months in extreme conditions or without food, showing how resilient this spider is. The three general categories that are missing in this Wikipedia page are mating, physiology, and diet. By incorporating information on mating, we would have been able to learn more about the male-male and male-female interactions that dictate sexual behavior. Physiology give us information of adaptations that may play a role in the spider’s behavior, especially with respect to sensory features. Finally, understanding the spider’s diet would allow us to learn more about its feeding and foraging behaviors that may inform the spider’s choice in habitat and hunting strategies. The article is part of the WikiProject Spiders and has been rated as B-class on the project’s quality scale and as high-importance on the importance scale. The quality scale seems reasonable since it is missing some content. I would consider this article to be mid-level importance since is covers a specific spider species rather than a general area of knowledge. Delanieludmir (talk) 03:00, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Behavioral Ecology Assignment

Some categories that could be included in this entry are mating, social behavior, and web mechanism and/or hunting mechanism. While there is a category dedicated to behavior, it only mainly covers defense mechanism, so it would certainly be more interesting to see their hunting approach, and their utilization of webs in different ways, especially given that they have a powerful venom that is necrotic. Along the same lines, more information on social behavior would be helpful in understanding whether their hunting or living occurs in groups, as venom seems to be a more individualistic characteristic that may potentially not require group living. Lastly, the mating process would be crucial in understanding the reproductive cycle of the brown recluse spiders, as well as understanding the relationship between male and female spiders, whether there is a power dynamic between the different sexes. Dyklee (talk) 04:02, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Brown recluse in California

"Despite rumors to the contrary, the brown recluse spider has not established itself in California or anywhere outside its native range." - they absolutely DID establish in California. We had seen dozens in Sunnyvale, Windsor Ridge apartments (I am biologist, can do recognition work stuff). Had even one bite, luckily by smaller sized one (about 2/3in) - red, itchy painfull swelling on lower leg, with massive local hemolysis (6in diameter), wich took over 4 weeks to heal. 67.188.141.71 (talk) 04:13, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

If they "did" occur and "had" been seen, the implication is that the species has not "established" itself, i.e. become naturalized. Peter coxhead (talk) 06:49, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

More to the point, perhaps, is that unless there is a reliable published source that can be cited, even if your anecdote is true, it can't be included in Wikipedia. I can add that I've heard that there is a population in a single warehouse in east LA, that has been living there for over a decade but has never spread outside that particular warehouse. A single building would not qualify as an established population. In plain fact, a population limited to a single building could fairly easily be eradicated, if people really put the proper effort into it. Dyanega (talk) 15:21, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

I just had a long face-to-face discussion about this with the actual world authority on brown recluses, Rick Vetter, who performed a 10-year study of spiders submitted as recluses in California. There are known populations of the Chilean recluse in a few east LA warehouses, and several scattered single-building records of the Mediterranean recluse from the Bay Area and that general region. Any recluses you saw in Sunnyvale were therefore Mediterranean recluses, and not brown recluses. The two species are extremely difficult to diagnose, even for experts. Please see Greene, A. (2009) American Entomologist 55: 158–169. doi:10.1093/ae/55.3.158 for detailed descriptions. The statement that there are no populations of brown recluses in California has never been disproven; there are other species of recluses in California, but not L. reclusa. Dyanega (talk) 21:29, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Misdiagnosis mnemonic

What does the "NOT RECLUSE" mnemonic stand for? 2600:100B:B130:A88:0:C:4E66:D101 (talk) 15:16, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

See this link for the details, if you cannot open the JAMA article itself. Dyanega (talk) 15:50, 22 February 2024 (UTC)