Talk:Milan Cathedral

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 4 September 2019 and 28 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Allisonportenier.

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Malenacora.

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Missing

++Missing a couple of bits of info: the vocable (i.e., the saint(s) the church is dedicated to; even cathedrals have a saint or two attached to their names!) and the location--a map showing which of the many churches in Milan this is would be useful (and not only for tourists...those of us who study the things like to know where in town they are located for other purposes as well...)

Just sayin'--C224.34.104.12 (talk) 15:03, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Image- May 2003

I'm glad to see the photo captures the true essence of the Cathedral with Pigeons and their droppings (polite!) all over the place. User:Jacques Delson

I hate to say it, but to be honest, this one is so fuzzy I was rubbing my eyes. A sharp color picture would be better - I have one, but may be a while before it gets scanned in. Stan 18:57 May 6, 2003 (UTC)

I took that photo with a cheap roll of b&w film I'd picked up in the Czech Republic. I rather liked the effect on that one, but if someone has a better photo to add or replace it with, I certainly won't be offended. -- Infrogmation 19:09 May 6, 2003 (UTC)

Is this one good enough ? -- PFHLai 14:15, 2005 May 15 (UTC)

Um, since it is of Monza's Duomo, not Milan's, no. It also has no licence info. -- Infrogmation 03:51, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

Oooops ! Monza is near Milan, but not Milan. Big difference. My mistake. Never mind ..... -- PFHLai 04:23, 2005 May 17 (UTC)

No idea what you're on about. Can hardly see the pigeons, let alone any shit. (We're grown-ups now. We can use all the words.) — LlywelynII 16:14, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

I do have to say, though:

the first version of this page was much more beautiful and we've just been downhill ever since. I know we can't do pages like that here anymore, but there's definitely a market for that presentation. — LlywelynII 16:14, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Note from May 2206

GerritT 07:52, 16 May 2006 (UTC) GerritT edited this article, 15-05-2006 I wonder how to contant the first author

Foto-strip

The layout, which features a strip of illustrations, all a uniform size, down one side like a brochure for a honeymoon hideaway, appeals to the culturally impoverished. Better layouts are strenuously resisted at Wikipedia. No sense in wasting time. --Wetman 05:55, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

More of a constraint of HTML - which isn't great at fancy layouts in any case - that is further constrained by Wikipedia's need to accomodate the widest possible range of web access devices. Ultimately Wikipedia is about communication rather than looking pretty. Sure, communication can sometimes be aided by fancy layouts, but Wikipedia is operating under a lot of constraints - just getting a HTML page to look reasonable on a 800px wide screen and a fancy 24" widescreen can be pretty difficult, and that's without the possibility of having the whole world fiddling with your design after you've done it! Down the right hand side may not be pretty, but it's effective. FlagSteward (talk) 18:50, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Ludovico Sforza

Ludovico Sforza was taken prisoner by the French in 1500 and died in France un 1508. Thus, he could not be involved with the Milan Cathedral in 1500 - 1510.

Good article?

This article desperately needs more references, but aside from that I'd have thought it would be a good candidate for GA, and wouldn't be a million miles away from a FA if anyone wants to give it a go. I'm not volunteering... ;-/ FlagSteward (talk) 18:50, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

The article certainly seems very informative. But the following statement needs to be properly referenced or else eliminated:

The cathedral of Milano is often described as one of the greatest churches in the world.[4][5]

The first of the two references given is to an article by a sports writer visiting Milan for a football match, and the second is a journalist writing about the sights of the city for tourists. Has anyone with a reputation to lose ever called it “one of the greatest churches in the world?” I would suspect it's not even one of the greatest churches in Italy, but I’m no expert on the subject.Campolongo (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 11:58, 7 November 2009 (UTC). I propose to remove the statement "The cathedral of Milano is often described as one of the greatest churches in the world." The sources given are silly. This is meant to be an encyclopedia, not promotional journalism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.36.214.45 (talk) 06:45, 28 August 2010 (UTC) I went ahead and removed it. If someone with an understanding of architecture praised the cathedral discerningly it would be worth quoting their opinion. But not hack journalists.

The Roof

The introduction to Mark Twain's passage about the Duomo reads: "The American writer and journalist Mark Twain visited Milan in the summer of 1867. He dedicated chapter 18 of Innocents Abroad to the Milan Cathedral, including many physical and historical details, and a now uncommon visit to the roof."68.226.16.229 (talk) 14:57, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Earlier in the article, under Architecture and Art, one reads: "The roof is open to tourists (for a fee), which allows many a close-up view of some spectacular sculpture that would otherwise be unappreciated. The roof of the cathedral is renowned for the forest of openwork pinnacles and spires, set upon delicate flying buttresses."

I've been on the roof, so I doubt if such a visit is "uncommon" these days. I wonder why the writer has written "uncommon." 68.226.16.229 (talk) 14:57, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

I took the picture (a Commons FP!) used for the roof, which shows a lot of people on it. Perhaps the writer meant "then-uncommon"? I'll take it out. Daniel Case (talk) 00:48, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

Added name

I added the dedication of the cathedral to Sant Maria Nascente. Surely it should also be added to the box? The more I look at this article and compare it to the Italian version, the more superficial and unsatisfactory it seems. I don't say it should be as long as the Italian version, but we could usefully add a lot of info from there. It's also written in a more rational way and the tone is less promotional. Campolongo (talk) 20:31, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

The dedication is important but unless the diocese itself calls the church "St Mary Nascent" (and even then) we shouldn't: It's not how people talk about such dedications (it's always either St Mary of the X or the X of St Mary) and it's bad English. St Mary Nascent means Mary is about to be born (or come into herself or... something). Anyway, fixed. — LlywelynII 15:37, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

It is the largest Gothic cathedral

Not really what people think of when asked to draw a "Gothic Cathedral"

It is the largest Gothic cathedral and the second largest Catholic cathedral in the world. I find it ironic that almost the same exact words are used for the Seville Cathedral: It is the largest Gothic cathedral and the third-largest church in the world. Clearly one of the two is wrong. Also, both cathedrals are Catholic.--72.186.123.32 (talk) 06:08, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Well, normally something is "gothic" if it's a large mess (which would apply here) but when talking about cathedrals there's actually a Gothic style that was used for a certain timeframe and that can also be used to refer to modern buildings which consistently mimic that style (which this doesn't). So they're both right and we should include the (conflicting) claims to both pages if there are reliable sources for both assertions. It's not like there is a World Gothic Churches Council that sets stringent standards for the term. There could easily be other contenders, since Seville Cathedral isn't really Gothic either: it's a mosque.
But we don't really judge that ourselves: we follow the sources and, if they conflict, report the controversy. — LlywelynII 15:24, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Doors and update for "Completion", 1965

Not counting ongoing renovations, the final doors were finished and installed in 1965 which should be considered the date of "completion". http://www.aviewoncities.com/milan/duomo.htm Keelec (talk) 03:43, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

WP:RS

Wondermondo isn't one. Part of the reason we don't use them is they're more likely to be wrong. It is: St Thecla's was the original church's dedication, not the 9th century one's. — LlywelynII 15:52, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Capacity 40.000? Nope!

The cathedral covers an area, in which you can fit 40,000 people with about 0.25 sqm per person. But you have to remove all the walls, pillars, altars, benches etc. to achieve this. Actually you have to destroy the cathedral to fit 40,000 people in it. Saying that the cathedral has a capacity of 40,000 is the same as saying that every single football field (100x70 sqm) has a capacity of 28,000 spectators without even building some stands: You need room for the purpose of the building: Playing football, holding masses, (holding up the building) etc. Apart from this calculations: There is no citation for the number of spectators, and you only find unsourced travel guides and websites stating this number. Neither the website of the cathedral itself nor the website of the diocese (just to name two who should know these details of their church) talks about a capacity of 40,000. --2A02:810D:8BC0:1548:A5CE:578E:A76F:98D1 (talk) 12:21, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Additional comparision: Cologne Cathedral, though only slightly smaller by ground area (144x86 sqm vs. 158x92 sqm) only has place for 4,000 people, 2800 standing, 1200 seated, a tenth of the 40,000. I've been to a mass in cologne cathedral when it was full: It was crowded. --2A02:810D:8BC0:1548:A5CE:578E:A76F:98D1 (talk) 13:03, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Actually the fifth largest church building in the world

According to List of largest church buildings in the world Milan Cathedral is the sixth largest church building in the world, but the First Family Church in Kansas surely doesn't count any more, since it closed in 2011, and was bought and reopened by the local school district as an education centre (Really, that list shouldn't include it IMO). Anyway, I'm going ahead and changing this article to "fifth largest church building in the world" and I'll point to this list somehow as some sort of evidence. Jon (talk) 21:45, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

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