Tucker Carlson Network was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 20 February 2024 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Tucker Carlson. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.
This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Tucker Carlson article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourcedmust be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Media, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Media on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MediaWikipedia:WikiProject MediaTemplate:WikiProject MediaMedia articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Journalism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of journalism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.JournalismWikipedia:WikiProject JournalismTemplate:WikiProject JournalismJournalism articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Conservatism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of conservatism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ConservatismWikipedia:WikiProject ConservatismTemplate:WikiProject ConservatismConservatism articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Anti-war, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the anti-war movement on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Anti-warWikipedia:WikiProject Anti-warTemplate:WikiProject Anti-warAnti-war articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject California, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of California on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CaliforniaWikipedia:WikiProject CaliforniaTemplate:WikiProject CaliforniaCalifornia articles
The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to post-1992 politics of the United States and closely related people, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:
You must follow the bold-revert-discuss cycle if your change is reverted. You may not reinstate your edit until you post a talk page message discussing your edit and have waited 24 hours from the time of this talk page message
Violations of any of these restrictions should be reported immediately to the arbitration enforcement noticeboard.
Editors who are aware of this topic being designated a contentious topic and who violate these restrictions may be sanctioned by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offense.
If you are unsure if your edit is appropriate, discuss it here on this talk page first. Remember: When in doubt, don't revert!
The contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to articles about living or recently deceased people, and edits relating to the subject (living or recently deceased) of such biographical articles, which has been designated as a contentious topic.
Carlson should be described as "far right" since sources describe him as such[edit]
As of now, the lead states that Carlson is "conservative" and " circulating far-right ideas". I think he should just (either instead of additionally) be described as "far right", sice this is what plenty of reliable sources use e.g. Sky News, Politico, The Guardian, The Independent (here and here), the WSJ, and CNBC. Cortador (talk) 11:00, 9 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Why not also say he is a conservative? Slatersteven (talk) 11:07, 9 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As I mentioned, either additionally or instead, and instead because not one of sources actually calls Carlson conservative. Two sources in the article, from 2009 and 2017, describe him as such, but it seems that this descriptor isn't used any more, as Carlson has drifted further to the right. That said, we can use both descriptors if there's consensus for that. Cortador (talk) 12:07, 9 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Both descriptors are fine then. Cortador (talk) 21:43, 9 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Per WP:RSPSOURCES, some of the sources you listed while credible, other editors have noted as either bias and/or opinion pieces. If you must include “far-right” why not say something along the lines of “The Wall Street Journal, describes Tucker as Far-Right.” Due to the fact that it’s all opinion. That’s just my view. Interesting point you brought up my friend! Elvisisalive95 (talk) 13:43, 9 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not a single source I have listed above is an opinion piece. I don't know why you think that a WSJ descriptor should be attributed; as per the list you linked to, the WSJ is generally reliable and the notes do not mention attribution. Cortador (talk) 15:25, 9 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your reply! I was using the Wall Street Journal as an example. Each source you listed whom calls Tucker “far-right” is an opinion of the Author(s) of said article. It’s not a fact that he is or isn’t. We have to be in line with WP:NPOVElvisisalive95 (talk) 15:36, 9 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, those are no opinion pieces. They are news articles. Cortador (talk) 15:48, 9 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please understand the difference between reporting of facts and opinions mixed into factual reports [1] (and from a WT editorial on the topic [2]). That sources call him far-right might be encyclopedic but the problem with so much of this is we are telling vs showing. If nothing else, we can take a wait and see approach. Just because we have recent sources that are making these claims doesn't mean we should instantly change the article, especially when the term is a contentious label. If nothing else, it's poor writing style (see IMPARTIAL). Springee (talk) 19:23, 9 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
According whom is the label "contentious"? Cortador (talk) 21:05, 9 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Whether something is contentious or not depends on whether the sources are in disagreement about it, per WP:NPOV's avoid stating seriously contested assertions as facts and Avoid stating facts as opinions; if high-quality eliable sources state something without any indication that it is controversial, and no other sources contest them, then it is not contentious and should be stated in the article voice. (This is a frequent problem people have when interpreting related policy, since everyone has their own "gut feeling" about what terms and words and descriptors they find controversial and in what context - but it's important that we rely on the sources, not on our gut feelings.) --Aquillion (talk) 22:07, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, that is not what LABEL says. From LABEL, "Value-laden labels – such as calling an organization a cult, an individual a racist, sexist, terrorist, or freedom fighter, or a sexual practice a perversion – may express contentious opinion and are best avoided unless widely used by reliable sources to describe the subject, in which case use in-text attribution. Avoid myth in its informal sense, and establish the scholarly context for any formal use of the term." Since our Far-Right topic says it's associated with Nazi's, yes, far-right is always a contentious label. Springee (talk) 01:31, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, but calling him a "conservative" is blatantly false as the guy is basically a right-wing populist and hasn't held conservative views for a long time. But I suppose if enough sources are using the word "conservative" incorrectly there's no sense in arguing. Jonathan f1 (talk) 07:59, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Pretty much everything you said is correct, but do you have any evidence that the sources are in disagreement about this characterization of Tucker? If not, then by your own logic, there's nothing controversial about it. Brusquedandelion (talk) 12:47, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
See AllSides: "Far Right Also known as the extreme right, ultra right, or radical right, this term is most often used pejoratively to refer to politics further on the right of the left-right spectrum than the mainstream political right. Sara Diamond made a similar comment in her book, Roads to Dominion, p. 5.[3]
The term is used because unlike other ideological groups, such as liberals and conservatives, they do not have a shared self-description. For example, the Liberal Prime Minister of Canada calls himself a liberal, while no one calls themself far right.
Therefore, we should be cautious in using the term and make sure if it is used it is to enlighten readers rather than shame the subjects of articles.
Descriptions of political positions by journalists should be seen as analysis and therefore not rs. Journalists are experts in telling us what happened today, but they are not political scientists, sociologists or historians.
I don't see the problem with conservative. While most experts agree that American conservatism is misnamed, it was the term adopted by the radical right in the U.S. in the 1950s. I don't see a big difference between Carlson and the Birchers, McCarthyists and other extremists who first called themselves conservatives. TFD (talk) 14:21, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Determining whether or not Carlson meets the criteria for the far right is synthesis. What matters is whether experts have come to the same conclusion. MAGA supporters blame the Democratic Party for violence by BLM demonstrators. Americans historically have portrayed their opponents in extreme terms, which is ironic considering how little difference there is except in such as issues as which bathrooms transgendered students should use. TFD (talk) 19:37, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Americans historically have portrayed their opponents in extreme terms" Far from unique to Americans. What you describe is demonization: "propaganda or moral panic directed against any individual or group, for the purpose of defamation, character assassination and/or dehumanization." Anyway, the ultranationalist type has some common features across continents. The typical "we are going to regain our past greatness" bullshit. :
"Janusz Bugajski, summing up the doctrine in practical terms, "in its most extreme or developed forms, ultra-nationalism resembles fascism, marked by a xenophobic disdain of other nations, support for authoritarian political arrangements verging on totalitarianism, and a mythical emphasis on the 'organic unity' between a charismatic leader, an organizationally amorphous movement-type party, and the nation"." ..
"Roger Griffin has stated that ultranationalism is essentially founded on xenophobia in a way that finds supposed legitimacy "through deeply mythicized narratives of past cultural or political periods of historical greatness or of old scores to settle against alleged enemies"."
Actually describing opponents in extreme terms is largely unique to Americans. For example, the Founding Fathers insulted each other as royalists and jacobins. But over in France, where there actually were royalists and jacobins. Similarly, there actually are communists, fascists, socialists in legislatures outside the U.S.
It doesn't matter whether you believe Carlson meets Griffin's definition of ultra-nationalism but whether experts do. However, it is doubtful. As pointed out in a paper from the Carnegie foundation, "The Paradoxes of American Nationalism", American nationalism is qualitatively different from nationalism elsewhere. It "is defined not by notions of ethnic superiority, but by a belief in the supremacy of U.S. democratic ideals." We would expect for example a U.S. nationalist to denounce Putin as un-American. Biden supporters. who meet the definition of American nationalists, denounce Carlson for LACK of patriotism.
The problem comes IMHO in trying to explain the politics of the U.S. in the 2020s by referring to the politics of Italy in the 1920s. TFD (talk) 19:03, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Actually describing opponents in extreme terms is largely unique to Americans.
If you sincerely believe this, perhaps take some time to familiarize yourself with the views of one Adolf Hitler or Benito Mussolini. Or do you think there is nothing "extreme" about labeling your opponents as Judeo-Bolsheviks? Brusquedandelion (talk) 12:53, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If the example you come up with is HItler and Mussolini, then it must be pretty unusual. But the reality is that Hitler and Mussolini's most hated opponents were in fact Bolsheviks. The official name of the Russian Communist Party at the time was the All Union Communist Party (Bolsheviks).
Note also that the Communists referred to Hitler and Mussolini as fascists.
Calling people communists or fascists (or royals and jacobins) when that in fact is what they are is not describing them in extreme terms. It's only extreme when those terms are used against opponents who are not fascists and communists. That's why describing opponents in extreme terms is largely peculiar to the U.S. It's because there are no actual communists or fascists in the political mainstream. TFD (talk) 16:05, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Despite being listed as a member of the class of 1992, Carlson did not complete enough credits to graduate and did not receive a diploma."
This claim is supported by a single source, a book, with no accessibility except you go out and get a hold of it.
Multiple sources—Britannica, New York Times, inter al.—state that Carlson did graduate; in summary, in 1991 he left college with a B.A. in history. JohndanR (talk) 00:47, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's uncommon for BLPs to explicitly call out an individual did not graduate; rather, that fact is not mentioned at all.
As mentioned above, multiple reliable sources state Carlson did graduate; some author, whose source is unknown, made contradictory claims. Wiki may consider going so far as to call out this discrepancy, but completely erasing prior assertions because someone claims they aren't true is not encyclopedic. Kcmastrpc (talk) 16:05, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am confused, if he was listed as a member of the class in 1992, how can he have graduated in 1991? Slatersteven (talk) 16:03, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The theory of he finished in fall of 1991 he could be part of the class of 1992 since the official graduation is in the spring.
Looking at the original question, if only one source claims he didn't graduate and most say he did I would ignore that single source absent strong evidence. Carlson is the story of public figure who's credentials would be strongly questioned if such a gap was found. Springee (talk) 16:41, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Springee, @Kcmastrpc keeps reverting my edit, i don’t want to start an edit war. I was hoping you could take the reigns on the final say of what the outcome is on this one my friend! Elvisisalive95 (talk) 17:21, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry about that, I was mistaken, I didn't realize you were trying to restore the more accepted position (for some reason). I've restored your changes. Kcmastrpc (talk) 17:33, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think I found an offically verified record for the plane crash which Tucker Carlson was on. The record also contains a lot of detailed information about the flight. The information Tucker gave matches all the information in the record. As I am currently unable to edit the article, I ask someone who can to add this source to the relevant section (third paragraph under "Career"). Thanks. CyberOne25 (talk) 20:56, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In the section "Vladimir Putin interview" there is a "Citation needed"-Template. The bbc.com/news/world-europe-68223148 source after the following sentence does give the needed citation: "outspoken defender of Mr Putin since the war began". This is literally in the text, at least in the 20240222164654 Internet Archive version. You may delete this Talk thread after solving the "Citation needed" in the Wikipedia article. --2003:6:33AE:3D51:B446:1EC7:749:9951 (talk) 13:06, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
.svg){kind=small}
