Talk:GWR 4900 Class

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(William M. Connolley 21:00, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)) I'm not a train buff but I visited Didcot and took some photos, so I thought the class page should be created. Please correct my errors...

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Locomotive 5972.[edit]

What I'm hoping is that I want to hear about locomotive 5972 returning to British Railways service after she leaves Warner Bros. Studios in Leavesden. She was originally planned to leave in 2017, but now she is waiting to leave in 2019. Grumpy Flyweight (talk) 15:17, 30 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Credit to Phil Scott[edit]

I think this photo taken by Phil Scott should be the main ingredient for this page because 5972 is the famous GWR Hall Class locomotive have more of the fame. Cheers to you, Phil. I hope you don't mind. I should have asked first, my apologies anyways. But you are a good man and this photo of yours is the perfect fit for the article. Grumpy Flyweight (talk) 08:10, 26 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I forgot to put the word "to" between locomotive and have. My apologies. Grumpy Flyweight (talk) 08:26, 26 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note that photo credits don't get included in image captions, so I reverted that part of your changes. The credits, if appropriate, are on the file page. --David Biddulph (talk) 09:27, 26 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
And I reverted the rest of the image change. 5972 Olton Hall is not representative of the class as a whole, because of its non-authentic special name and livery. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:13, 26 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

All right. My deepest apologies anyways. Grumpy Flyweight (talk) 22:00, 26 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Pioneering mixed traffic 4-6-0s[edit]

It is certainly incorrect that the Hall class (introduced 1925) were the first true mixed traffic 4-6-0s. Earlier examples include the Great Central B5 "Fish engines" of 1902, the NER 4-6-0s and the LSWR H15 4-6-0s, all with a similar outside cylinder layout. To save space I have not given detailed quotes and references on these in the main article, as it is a minor point. It is certainly true that the Halls were markedly more successful and numerous than these earlier types, due to better design, and the LMS Black 5s, LNER B1s and BR 5MT engines were designed along similar lines. Hyperman 42 (talk) 20:05, 15 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Oil-fired Halls[edit]

I have added a new section mentioning the eleven oil-fired Halls in 1946-50. This is mainly to complement the hatnote in Draft:GWR 3900 Class that explains the clash in numbers in the 39xx range. I have searched for a list of conversions with definitive numbers changed, but I have only found some online discussions and I am not sure if they are a sufficient authority.

The authority is a couple of picture captions in the Haresnape book; this is now referenced inline so should be removed from the additional reading section, but I have left it in case someone comes up with more comprehensive documentation.

It appears that a number of Castles were also converted, but without number changes. GWR 4073 Class does not mention this either.

Verbarson (talk) 18:37, 3 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The oil-burning programme began as a small-scale experiment on the GWR shortly after the second world war, and initially concerned only the 2800 class (although it was intended to also convert some 4200 class as well[1]). During the 1946-47 fuel crisis the government picked up on the idea and decided that the UK could make more coal available for other uses by reducing the amount that was burned in locomotives. So, they cut oil fuel duty and also provided money for the four major railways to convert a total of 1,217 locomotives to burn oil. Unfortunately, the oil all had to be imported (shale oil from Scotland and Purbeck was not plentiful enough, and there was no North Sea oil in those days) and since we were paying more for the imported oil than we saved by not burning coal, the project fell down. But before it was abandoned, a total of 37 GWR locomotives of four classes were converted, beginning in October 1945:
  • 2800 class (20) nos. 2872/54/62/49/39/63/32/48/34/45/53/47/88, 3865/18/39/37/13/20/31 - these were renumbered 4800-11 and 4850-7 respectively[2]
  • 4073 (Castle) class (5) nos. 100A1, 5039/79/83/91 - these were not renumbered[3]
  • 4300 class (1) no. 6320 - this was not renumbered[4]
  • 4900 (Hall) class (11) nos. 4968/71/48/07/72, 5955/76, 6957/53, 5986, 6949 - these were renumbered 3900-4 and 3950-5 respectively[5]
Renumbered locomotives were not considered to be reclassified - thus, no. 3900 was still a 4900 class loco. Conversions ceased in September 1947, and between September 1948 and April 1950, all were reconverted to coal; those that had been renumbered regained their previous numbers.
Other railways also participated in the scheme: for instance, the LMS converted some Fowler 4F 0-6-0, Stanier 5MT 4-6-0, Fowler 7F 0-8-0 and Stanier 8F 2-8-0, but no renumbering was carried out. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:56, 3 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I've got info for the LMS share of the scheme. They were authorised to convert 485 locomotives of six classes, but only 25 conversions were carried out:[6][7]
LMS locomotives converted for oil burning, 1946–49
Class Quantity authorised Locos actually converted Converted for oil-burning Reconverted for coal-burning Ref
LMS Fowler Class 4F 16 4466, 4522/85/98 (4) October–November 1947 November–December 1948 [8][9]
LMS Stanier Class 5 4-6-0 5 4826/7/9/30/44 (5) June–September 1947 June–October 1948 [10][11][12]
LMS Garratt 33 (whole class) — — —
LMS Stanier Class 8F 245 8064/79, 8191, 8269/73, 8370/85/6, 8606/53/96 (11) June–December 1947 August 1948 – January 1949 [13][14]
LMS Class 7F 0-8-0 175 (whole class) 9511/33, 9613/42/70 (5) 1947 1948 (no. 9511 only, see below) [15][16]
S&DJR 7F 2-8-0 11 (whole class) — — —
The use of oil for fuel on the former LMS ceased in April 1948. 7F nos. 9533, 9613/42/70 were not reconverted but were withdrawn in 1949, they had not run since 1948.[15][16] --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 14:45, 4 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "G.W.R. Oil-Burning Locomotives". The Railway Magazine. Vol. 92, no. 562. March–April 1946. pp. 91–92.
  2. ^ le Fleming, H.M. (February 1962). White, D.E. (ed.). The Locomotives of the Great Western Railway, part nine: Standard Two-Cylinder Classes. RCTS. p. J21. ISBN 0-901115-37-1. OCLC 655827210.
  3. ^ le Fleming, H.M. (November 1960). White, D.E. (ed.). The Locomotives of the Great Western Railway, part eight: Modern Passenger Classes (2nd ed.). RCTS. p. H16.
  4. ^ le Fleming 1962, p. J14
  5. ^ le Fleming 1960, p. H31
  6. ^ Rowledge, J.W.P. (1975). Engines of the LMS built 1923-51. Oxford: Oxford Publishing Co. pp. 9, 11, 29, 30, 41. ISBN 0-902888-59-5.
  7. ^ Haresnape, Brian (February 1981) [1972]. Fowler Locomotives: A Pictorial History. Shepperton: Ian Allan. p. 19. ISBN 0-7110-0374-2. CX/0281.
  8. ^ Rowledge 1975, p. 9
  9. ^ Hunt, David; Jennison, John; Essery, R.J.; James, Fred (2007). LMS Locomotive Profiles, no. 10 - The Standard Class 4 Goods 0-6-0s. Didcot: Wild Swan. p. 68. ISBN 978-1-905184-35-4.
  10. ^ Rowledge 1975, p. 11
  11. ^ Hunt, David; James, Fred; Essery, R.J.; Jennison, John; Clarke, David (2004). LMS Locomotive Profiles, no. 6 - The Mixed Traffic Class 5s - Nos. 5225-5499 and 4658-4999. Didcot: Wild Swan. pp. 71–72. ISBN 1-874103-93-3.
  12. ^ Jennison, John (2015). A detailed history of The Stanier Class Five 4-6-0s Volume 2 - on 45472-45499, 44658-44999. Locomotives of the LMS. Maidenhead: RCTS. pp. 85–87. ISBN 978-0-901115-99-7.
  13. ^ Rowledge 1975, p. 29
  14. ^ Hunt, David; Jennison, John; James, Fred; Essery, R.J. (2005). LMS Locomotive Profiles, no. 8 - The Class 8F 2-8-0s. Didcot: Wild Swan. pp. 79–80. ISBN 1-905184-08-5.
  15. ^ a b Rowledge 1975, p. 30
  16. ^ a b Haresnape 1981, p. 110

Average working speed[edit]

Add a piece which states the average working speed of which the class operated at 2A01:4C8:D61:EF34:1:1:F491:4B72 (talk) 09:35, 12 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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