Talk:Butte, Montana

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Good articleButte, Montana has been listed as one of the Geography and places good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
March 22, 2009Featured article candidateNot promoted
February 19, 2018Good article nomineeNot listed
May 12, 2018Good article nomineeListed
Current status: Good article

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GA Review[edit]

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Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Butte, Montana/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Stedil (talk · contribs) 22:32, 22 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]


Greetings! I will be reviewing this article. I plan to start going through the article tomorrow, time permitting. I'll update review progress in the table, with specific concerns to address below. Stedil (talk) 22:32, 22 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Rate Attribute Review Comment
1. Well-written:
1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct. A few small little things here and there, but overall very good.
1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation. A few issues to clean up in the lead. Update: fixed.
2. Verifiable with no original research:
2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline. Biggest issue with the article is here. Quite a few suggestions for improvement, listed below. Update: one more issue left. Final update: fixed.
2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose). sources are mostly reliable.
2c. it contains no original research. may contain OR, though perhaps all information in the article can be properly cited. Update: fixed.
2d. it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism. just a few small moments where the text closely mirrors the source. Update:fixed.
3. Broad in its coverage:
3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.
3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).
4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content. one fair use that has valid rationale. Lots of public domain images.
6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.
7. Overall assessment. A lot of citation issues to address. I'll give you some time to address these issues before making a decision. Update: issues have been addressed, so I'll pass the article. Nice work!

Lead[edit]

  • "contemporarily, Butte has the largest population of Irish Americans" 'contemporarily' is vague. Be specific - substituting with something like 'As of 2017' is more precise.
  • Double check the population and other data/statistics in the infobox. The 2010 census population numbers, by my check, are wrong. Also, there is no official population estimate for Butte for 2018. The Census Bureau hasn't even released 2017 population estimates for Butte yet (these are being rolled out gradually throughout the US in 2018), so the most recent population estimate should be 2016 until then.
  • There is some weasily language - "most notorious," "famous", "priding itself"
  • Remember that the lead should summarize the contents of the body of the article. If this is done properly, then citations in the lead should be unnecessary or minimal. Double check to make sure all info in the lead is discussed and referenced in the body of the article. Stedil (talk) 23:48, 23 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Early History and Immigrants[edit]

  • "Butte began as a mining camp in the 1860s" The lead and infobox are more specific (1864). Is there a reason this is more vague? It needs to be consistent.
  • " In 1864, William L. Farlin staked the Asteroid Mine (later known as the Travona)" copied word for word from source.
  • third paragraph: the info about the "red light district" needs to be cited. The citation at the end of the paragraph only contains information about beer and breweries. Stedil (talk) 00:29, 24 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Industrial Expansion[edit]

  • "Between 1884 and 1888, Clark constructed the Copper King Mansion in Butte, which became his second residence from his home in New York City." citation needed.
  • "Four industrial magnates fought for control of Butte's mining wealth." Can a specific source that talks specifically about this be found? The sources later on tangentially list each individually as a "Copper King," but none actually connect the four together, or describe any "fight for control" between them.
  • "equivalent to $626,451,852 in 2017" citation needed.
  • "It was the first city in Montana to have electricity" I can't find this in the DEQ source (unless I missed it). Double check - I think a separate citation is needed.
  • "making it the largest producer of copper in North America and second only to South Africa in world production of metals." copied from source. Rephrase. Stedil (talk) 01:51, 25 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Anaconda Copper and civil unrest[edit]

  • "In the 1920s, it had a virtual monopoly over the mines in and around Butte." citation needed.
  • "even electing a Mayor on the Socialist ticket in 1914" double check this source. I don't have access to the full book, but I searched for "mayor" within the Google Books version, and caught a snippet which seems to say that the socialist mayor served from 1911 to 1914.
  • "the event was the largest hard rock mining accident in the history" The history of what?
  • Everything from "A rescue effort commenced" to "some survived" is unsourced. Citation(s) needed.
    • There are still a lot of details in this section that aren't found in any of the sources. Stedil (talk) 18:31, 6 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Citation needed tag at the end of the 3rd paragraph is valid and should be addressed.
  • "The loss of miners in the incident sparked additional strikes and protests, as well as the establishment of the Metal Mine Workers Union, which led 15,000 workers to abandon their jobs" meaning unclear - what led the workers to abandon their jobs - the loss of miners or the establishment of the union? (probably the loss of miners). Rephrase. I recommend making it clear that both the establishment of the Metal Mine Workers Union and the 15,000 jobs abandoned were both the result of the miner deaths.
  • "The historian Janet Finn has examined this "tale of two cities"—Butte and Chuquicamata as two ACM mining towns" This is an odd sentence. Is it necessary? Stedil (talk) 01:51, 25 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Open pit mining era[edit]

  • "Disputes between miners' unions and companies continued through the 1920s and 1930s in Butte" source only lists strikes in 1920 and 1921.
  • "protestors attempted to blow up the Hibernian Hall on Main Street with dynamite." source doesn't say anything about protesters. No connection made in source between attempt to blow up the hall and disputes with miners' unions.
  • "Between 1914 and 1920, the U.S. National Guard occupied Butte a total of six times to restore civility" What does this have to do with the 20s and 30s? Doesn't this sentence belong in the 'civil unrest' section?
  • "The copper mines proved to be prosperous until the 1950s" but the source says Anaconda cut production in the 1920s, and that there was a slump in production in the 30s.
  • "declining grade of ore" but the source says the switch was because open-pit mining is less labor-intensive. It doesn't say anything about the grade of ore. I noticed that another source (Shovers 1998) mentions lower grade ore.
  • "costly and dangerous practice of underground mining" Is it? Once again, the source says nothing about the cost or dangers of underground mining in comparison to open pit.
  • Everything from "At the time" to "In 1982, all mining in the Berkeley Pit was suspended" is unsourced. I think I saw most of this information in other sources - transplant them here to show proper attribution. Stedil (talk) 01:29, 26 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Post-millenium[edit]

  • sentence beginning, "Around twenty of the headframes" needs a citation.
  • "Many areas of the city" there is a citation at the end of this sentence, but it only tangentially addresses the topic (restoration of signs). Could a better source be found that discusses preservation efforts in general?
  • "is now the largest National Historic Landmark District in the United States" source only says 'one of the largest,' not the largest. "with nearly 6,000 contributing properties" number of properties not mentioned in source.
  • Sentence beginning, "Environmental research and clean-up efforts" is too long. Separate the ideas into at least two (or more) sentences.
  • Citation at the end of the section is (on my browser, at least) dead. Double check, and replace citation, if needed. Stedil (talk) 01:29, 26 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]


@Stedil:I have addressed everything above this point (i.e. lead section and whole of the History section) as of 27 April 2018. I have plugged new sources in and addressed inconsistencies and other issues you raised. Let me know if I have missed anything pertinent—it's possible I may have missed something here in the shuffle. The only point I'm not sure how to address is your note about a citation needed for the "equivalent to $626,451,852 in 2017"—reason being that the inflation is calculated by the Template:Inflation/US function, which is used to convert the $23,000,000 total. The $23 million total itself is cited; the inflation function is merely reinterpreting it to give readers an idea of the contemporary monetary equivalent. Let me know your thoughts on this. Thanks for all your work. I will resume the points you've raised below (i.e. Geography section onward) in short order. --Drown Soda (talk) 23:29, 27 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, ok. I didn't know Wikipedia had a template that calculates inflation. I'll strike that point. Stedil (talk) 17:00, 29 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Stedil: No worries—I am going to do some more work and hopefully finish addressing your points this evening. However, I noticed the article was given a quick-fail on 19 February due to a couple of issues that have since been resolved. I never saw this before. Does this require a renomination then, or can you pass/fail at this point without renomination? --Drown Soda (talk) 23:33, 1 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It shouldn't be an issue. The article was placed immediately back in the queue following a discussion about several articles quick failed by that reviewer. (See discussion here). Stedil (talk) 21:23, 5 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Geography[edit]

  • "According to the United States Census Bureau the city has a total area of 716.8 sq mi (1,856.5 km2), of which 716.1 sq mi (1,854.7 km2) is land and 0.66 sq mi (1.7 km2) (0.09%) is water." These numbers don't match those in the source. I noticed the source refers to the Census numbers for Silver Bow County, not Butte. My understanding is that while the governments have been consolidated, the county and the city limits are not exactly identical. When I looked at the census data, the numbers for Silver Bow County were different than the numbers for Butte. Double check and update source and/or info as needed.
  • "Butte is also home to one of the largest deposits of bornite." citation needed.
  • "Of all United States communities situated on the Continental Divide, Butte is the most populous" citation needed.
  • The citation to Google Maps confuses me. Does Google Maps show the location of the Continental Divide? Stedil (talk) 01:29, 26 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Demographics[edit]

  • Citation to the census bureau (Quick Facts) doesn't go to the census bureau. Replace web citation.
  • As I mentioned earlier, double check the data in this section and make sure it reflects the population statistics of Butte according to the 2010 census. Harmonize the information in this section with the infobox. Stedil (talk) 01:29, 26 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    • I still found a lot of inconsistencies in this section, so I made some significant changes. One issue with the "Quick Facts" page is it pulls some of its numbers from ACS survey data, not the Decennial Census. The ACS has a wider margin of error than the Census, so I replaced this data with the 2010 Census numbers. I also tweaked some numbers in the table and infobox so they are all consistent with each other. Some of the numbers referred to Silver Bow County instead of the city of Silver Bow-Butte (balance), which are different because of Walkerville. Stedil (talk) 20:33, 6 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Government and Politics[edit]

  • I like the presidential election chart, but could it perhaps be updated to show results from the 2016 presidential election? Stedil (talk) 01:29, 26 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Historical Sites and Museums[edit]

  • "Butte was one of only twelve towns in America to be named a Distinctive Destination by the National Trust for Historic Preservation" I'm receiving an error 404 message for the archive link. Stedil (talk) 00:48, 27 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Events and Traditions[edit]

  • "Each year, about 30,000 revelers converge on Butte's historic Uptown district" I can't find this in the source, though I can't listen to the video in my current location. Double check whether this fact is supported in the source.
  • "This event draws over 50,000 motor sport enthusiasts and fans of Evel Knievel (a Butte native) from around the world" None of this info is in the cited source.
  • "this event attracted 170,000 attendees for the three-day celebration of traditional music, art, dance and cuisine" citation needed.
  • "largest free-of-admission music festival in Montana" not in source, which says "one of the largest in the northwest." Even if this claim were made, The source is the festival organizer, which wouldn't be a reliable source for this claim.
  • "which is the largest in the state" citation needed.
  • "have arguably become Montana's symbolic foods, known and enjoyed throughout Montana" not supported by the source. Source mentions the different types of food, but doesn't say anything about their place in Montana as a whole. Stedil (talk) 00:48, 27 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Environmental Concerns[edit]

  • "The mining and smelting operations of the Anaconda Copper Mining Corporation were the primary cause of this pollution at the headwaters of the Clark Fork River." Double check if this is supported by the source. I think the source is suggesting that there were multiple organizations responsible for the contamination, and that a large number of the abandoned mines are not currently owned by anybody.
  • "Most of the waste was created by the Anaconda Copper Mining Corporation" the source says that Anaconda was "one of the Potentially Responsible Parties," which doesn't support the assumption that most of the waste came from them.
  • " great quantities of lead and other heavy metals into the air (MacMillan)" is MacMillan supposed to be a citation? Link to the article. Stedil (talk) 00:48, 27 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Sports[edit]

  • "after 2000, the team became the Grand Junction Rockies" Some rewording needed. The team is currently known as the Grand Junction Rockies. It didn't have this name in 2000.
  • "Purchased the Glacier Nationals franchise in the North American 3 Hockey League in for the 2017–18 season but went dormant prior to playing the season" rephrase this sentence. It is a sentence fragment, and has some errors ('in for') You may consider restructuring the first sentence to connect them better. Stedil (talk) 00:48, 27 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Education[edit]

  • "has been nationally recognized among the top 10% of engineering universities in the United States" find a source independent of the university to provide this info, as it could be promotional.

Media[edit]

  • "It was founded in 1928 and is the result of The Butte Miner and the Anaconda Standard merging into one daily paper. Prior to 1928, the newspaper had been known as The Butte Miner". Doesn't the second sentence contradict the first?
  • "partially shot in Butte in September 1974" citation link is dead. Access date is missing. Stedil (talk) 00:48, 27 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Additional Comments[edit]

@Drown Soda: Initial review completed. I have placed the review on hold to give you time to respond. Let me know when you have addressed everything, and I'll take another look. Stedil (talk) 00:48, 27 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Stedil: thanks much. I will look over this in the next few days and start filling in the gaps here. --Drown Soda (talk) 01:07, 27 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Stedil:I think I have ticked the boxes so far here, but let me know if something appears outstanding. An online version of Ref. 151 concerning The Killer Inside Me is unfortunately gone; the newspaper was previously archived at Newspapers.com, but it appears to have been removed. I left the newspaper source information as a reference without an online copy (unsure of what else to do about this). Best, --Drown Soda (talk) 00:34, 2 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Drown Soda: I have looked through the article again. I had two comments above, only one of which needs action from you (look for the green text). Stedil (talk) 20:43, 6 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Stedil: I reviewed your above comment--I believe you were referring to the "Anaconda and civil unrest" (1.3) section, no? I added some additional sources there to sentences that were lacking. If there are inconsistencies or discrepancies between the source/the sentence, do you know which citation numbers have the problem specifically? I can't seem to track them. --Drown Soda (talk) 20:54, 7 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Drown Soda: Yes, I was referring to the Anaconda section that discussed the mining incident. I'm not seeing any discrepancies between source and sentence. Since you have fixed the issue, I'll go ahead and pass the article. Stedil (talk) 18:45, 12 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

In Popular Culture; Film and Television[edit]

Route 66; Season 2, Episode 1 "A Month Of Sundays" (September 22, 1961). Tod and Buz, in Butte, Montana working as laborers in a copper mine, meet a beautiful girl at their rooming house. She's a local girl who made it big in NY but mysteriously came home despite being the star of a current Broadway hit. Buz quickly falls in love and becomes serious, but Tod knows her dark secret. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.237.81.222 (talk) 07:05, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

In the novel titled “Does Anyone Speak English?” (in Serbian Cyrillic written "Зна ли ко енглески") by Serbian journalist Dragan Tepavcevic (originally from Republic of Srpska, Bosnia and Herzegovina, but from 1998 he lives in Australia), chapter XIV set in 1907 in cooper mine in Butte, Montana. Delboj (talk) 13:45, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Historic population statistics[edit]

Checked the sources:

Munday, 2005: "Butte Mining, 1864 – 2005: A brief cultural and environmental history," found this sentence: "There is no published documentation to support anecdotes that Butte’s population approached 100,000"

Gibson, 2016: "Was Butte's population really 100,000 during its heyday?", found this sentence: "There also exists an official US Census estimate for 1917, which lists Butte (city) at 93,981, and Silver Bow County at 36,212."

A 1918 Census Bureau bulletin fails to support this. It includes a 1917 population estimate for Butte (Table 5, p. 20) that is much lower: 44,057. It does not include a figure for Silver Bow County.

(Census Bureau Bulletin 138 (published 1918), "Estimates of Population of the United States, 1910, 1911, 1912, 1913, 1914, 1915, 1916, and 1917, including results of the state enumerations made in 1915.

(URL: https://www2.census.gov/library/publications/decennial/1910/bulletins/demographics/138-estimates-of-population-of-us-1910-1917.pdf)

Gibson either used a different Census Bureau publication - or used a secondary source that stated incorrect (or purposely-inflated) figures. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:A1F0:BD0:1400:5FA4:CD69:FA01 (talk) 23:03, 6 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Mikeblas: Any idea why the "Historical population" table gives a 1920 census figure of 41,611 but footnote b says 60,000? GA-RT-22 (talk) 17:41, 19 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, no clue. The footnote references a book I don't have access to. The history table references a landing page at the Census website, and I don't know how to find the detailed history it means to reference. This is the problem with references that aren't carefully curated; they're not readily verifiable and articles end up with discrepancies or information that's incorrect altogether. -- Mikeblas (talk) 18:11, 19 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Martha Raye[edit]

The famous comic actor Martha Raye originated from Butte, Yup! G~G. G-G (talk) 21:33, 24 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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